I KNEW that you would avoid the point of the issue, instead you just resort to your usual tactic- "We may have screwed up, but THEY are badder than us!!!"

Tom, if all your engineer friends got together and decided to propell themselves off a very elevated vertical precipice without any safety devices, would you proceed to also propell yourself off of said precipice in the same manner?

The fact is, Tom, our country has done much in the past to be ashamed of- all I did was point that out... There ARE quite a few countries out there that dont have a dirty past like ours... the point I was trying to make is we cannot be indignant when its pointed out- Do I think we all are guilty decades and centuries after the fact? NO, the only people guilty today are the bigots- they propagate the evils of the past and keep that evil brewing- we have a few on this board, but I wont single out Lee...

You see Tom, when your argument degenerates to "Well, others have done evil too..." you kinda lose the moral high-ground, its kinda a sign that you really haven't a legitimate argument, no real defense, all you can do is try and change the subject to "how bad someone else is"...

A synopsis of your post is "Our past actions were the lesser of SOME evils" ...is that really a comfortable position for you...?

Tom, you do the SAME crappy rhetoric in nearly all your political posts....you get caught on a point, you rely on HOW BAD some person on the other side is... If we point out the falsehoods of our justification for the Iraq war was you try to link us with nuts carrying radical inflammatory signs- We post our opposition of policies, you post links to some left wing blog that has some lunatics posting inane offensive drivel...

I could try to do the same to you, Tom... But quite frankly I dont have the time, or the willingness to embarrass myself, that you seem to have... as the political season approaches you have become more and more irrational and vitriolic... you seem to think that you dont have to defend your stance, just link anyone that disagrees with you with some offensive extremist...

Do These Monty Python lines ring a bell?
"But,I came here for an argument!"
"Oh I am sorry, this is abuse..."

A CHALLENGE TO THE PARTISAN NUTS ON _BOTH_ SIDES... Instead of yapping and odiniffering and broszing and gbaikie-ing about the evils of the other parties candidate, can EITHER side give ANY credible argument that their candidate will do great good for our nation....? Remember, the rules are you CAN NOT argue that the other side is evil or bad....resorting to "our guy is the lessr of evils" disqualifies you immediately...

Quite frankly, when I look at our choices I have a sinking feeling we are stuck with the same old shit.