Off Topic — HabitableZone

Off Topic » in reply to Adios Muchachos

Oh that old thing
Robert — (archived)

You've inadvertantly reawakened a very old controversy in these parts. Long ago, we tried to discuss the intellectual and historical landscape of ideological relationships, but our Republicans were so offended that question for their ideological similarity to Nazies--however distant--was even being discussed that they pretty much shouted the conversation to a halt. It's been a sensitive subject ever since.

But yet I think it's an important question to discuss, especially now that we can examine the record of six years of Republican rule, going into what should be a landmark election.

Historically, the terms "conservative" and "liberal" are associated with one's belief in democracy. The violent rejection of democracy by Monarchists and Nazis put them firmly in the conservative camp; while the democracy movements in America, England, and France defined liberalism, as have latter-day "socialist" yet inexplicably (to Republican eyes) democratic European nations.

Modern American conservatives are visibly uncomfortable with democracy, always complaining about how people keep making the "wrong" decisions and "misusing" their votes. For a good time, bring up the subject of universal suffrage with Tom. I have, and I can tell you that he pines for some sort of electoral competency test to determine who gets the vote...and for sure he believes that the test should be written by conservatives. Fair warning, though: It's another opportunity to bring up Robert Heinlein and the "Starship Troopers" theory of electoral competence.

Or consider the conservative Holy Grail, a "permanent Republican majority". Does anything say "unclear on the concept" better than that phrase?

Republicans and Nazis both belong in the category "conservative". That doesn't make them equivalent, but it's a perfectly legitimate categorization.

But is Tom really a Republican? Truth is, Tom's a Libertarian at heart, so he's in the very difficult position of defending a Republican Party that's stolen the rhetoric of Libertarianism yet its actions are the opposite of Libertarian.

Ironically, it was Tom who introduced a 2D concept of the political landscape, through (if I remember right), the Libertarian Web site Advocates for Self-Government and their "World's Smallest Political Quiz". It's kind of interesting to play around with the answers to try and produce a particularl political position. Here's a Libertarian:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=10&e=10


and here's a Nazi:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=0&e=0


Libertarians and Nazis really are polar opposites.

Here's a NeoRepublican, pushing big government and heavy government intrusion into our personal lives:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=0&e=5


For completeness, here's a modern Democrat:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=10&e=5


Plotting ideology on a 2D landscape not only confirms the ideological affinity of Republicans and Nazis, it also reminds us that Liberals and Libertarians have much in common. Both put personal freedom and rights first, but Liberals believe in using the government as an instrument to promote those rights, while Libertarians view government in any form as a threat to personal freedom. Basically we agree on the ends, but disagree on the means.

So, anyway, that's the background. Don't say "adios muchachos", hombre, things are just starting to get interesting again.

Log in or register to post.

The whole thread (89 posts)