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Space/Science » in reply to re: active geyser vs passive spot

re: active geyser vs passive spot
Michael Gmirkin — (archived)

Now, did I say that the black streaking was at spiders direct center? No... Electricity really only cares about conductive pathways, it doesn't care about our aesthetics. My point was that in a number of the photos the black streaks are associated over some portion of the spiders more strongly than other neutral spaces in frame. If the black streaking were random we'd expect to see it everywhere in frame. But in many cases it seems to preferentially overlap the spider (often with 2-4 black streaks over the same area, covering the spider).

Let me draw a powerful parallel to another vortexed weather phenomenon here on earth: the tornado.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch05/050322dustdevils.htm

Note in the picture: we have a tornado vortex, and NEXT TO IT we have a bolt of lightning. This is how I would EXPECT dust devil and spider formation to be related. Ie they're both discharges from the same area of charge in the atmosphere and ground. BUT, as you can see in the photo here (I love this photo, who ever took it should be awarded a medal), the bolt of lightning and the vortexed weather pattern don't necessarily overlap where they discharge EXACTLY. IE, one might be NEXT TO the other or they might partially overlap.

My point here is that the lightning doesn't necessarily use the same weakly ionized channel that is powering the weather vortex (dust devils, land spouts, water spouts, tornados). But they're all part of thte same charge system and will be more highly associated with each other than random chance.

Again, to make my point:

1) Vortexed systems are likely a charge-sheath vortex or a SLOW electrical discharge phenomenon (non-catastrophic; no lightning).
2) Lightning is a catastrophic dielectric breakdown (for lack of a better word, an arc or a spark).
3) There may be instances where there is non-catastrophic discharge in a vortex and NO dielectric breakdown. There may be instances where there is dielectric breakdown too quickly for the slower discharge vortex to form. But there are also instances where both form in extremely close proximity to each other as in the photo above.

So, again, the black streaking need not be directly over the "center" nor have I ever said it SHOULD be over the center, just that there is often a good degree of correlation of locality between what appears to be Dust Devil streaking and catastrophic discharge. IE, over the spiders there may in occasion be one -> five (possibly more) associated streaks overlapping the pattern in an apparently preferential manner.

Basically, the way I figure it, you have a region of charge that creates one or more dust devils (they often come in pairs or more on Earth; I assume the same is true on Mars), at some point sufficient ionization occurs in the atmosphere that dielectric breakdown happens, and an arc of lightning forms, at which point a Lichtenberg figure is created, size depending on the size of the discharge. And since it's part of the same charge system as the dust devils, it's in the same vicinity, and the streaks overlap the spiders.

http://www.martianspiders.com/e0702165b.jpg.htm
http://www.martianspiders.com/e0800043.jpg.htm

But as we saw in the other photo, the bolt need no travel along the same path the vortex takes. The bolt needs only find a conductive ionized channel to ground to complete the electrical circuit.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/images05/050322dustdevils.jpg


Hope that clears up your misgivings a bit? IE, there can be slow discharges (dust devils) on their own, streaking the surface, there can be fast/catastrophic discharge via dielectric breakdown (lightning), leaving Lichtenberg scarring on/in the surface, or there can be highly associated instances of BOTH at the same location and overlapping.

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