Doesn't it make more sense, if as you say everyone ends up on that public dole eventually, to just bite the bullet and get it done up front efficiently and simply instead of having numerous and costly paths for people and corporations to fall into it? There's ample evidence that when it's unplanned for it ends up costing much more.

Societies, (unless you can truly find your libertarian utopia that's never existed in anything more than a wet dream) if they want to prosper, have to find ways of dealing with the least amongst themselves. The cost is there no matter what your political belief. As ER said before, he pays for public schools although he has no children utilizing that benefit right now. His reward though is living in an educated country. The alternative is a huge class divide full of crime and chaos and an unproductive economy.

We all pay for police and fire protection even if we are not victims of crime and we do our best to prevent our houses from burning down. I'm certain you understand the societal benefit though of supporting those institutions in areas where you don't live. Crime and flames have this habit of spreading beyond where they begin.

There's a portion of GM's troubles that are of their own making along with collusion from the oil industry. I have no sympathy for their plight in that area. Heads at the top ought to roll in order for them to be bailed out. I do however acknowledge that the employee health care and retirement costs add a huge burden to their profit margin compared with countries that have universal coverage and cradle to grave national benefits.

Providing a security blanket to all of society even though there will be some small percentage that abuse it isn't about just being touchy-feely and naive Tom. It makes sense economically. Identifying the costs up front and creating ways to address them is cheaper than dealing with the repercussions afterward. As much as you'd like to divorce yourself from societal responsibilities you can't unless you can find some island to create that libertarian Nirvana I mentioned before. Watch your ass around your neighbors though. They're a greedy and ruthless sort.

You had your stab at deregulation and a disemboweling of much of our social safety net and where has it gotten us? The class divide has never been greater and the middle section where you and I inhabit is the next to go. Those guys at the very top will ride it all out just fine and not give a fucking care in the world about your plight. You've been sold a bill of goods by a bunch of snake oil salesmen flying around in their private planes and farting on their fleet of yachts telling you they're on your side and that they'll let some of their wealth spill over to you. Sorry Charlie, you grew up on the wrong side of the Nieman Marcus to be their true recipient.

Art