Are you awake yet?

ER is right and wrong. He is right in the sense that you seek validation in the form of sharing views with likeminded individuals who can agree with and enforce your own views. Your assumption that the HZ - because it was originally a space board - will be home to people who share those views is what needs new perspective.

Your assumptions need to be checked. How many of the original 50 or so members remain? How many that came later, with only marginal interest in space and related sciences remain?

I always thought Phil was a pessimist for ceasing participation in all but the space board. However, I know see his thinking a bit clearer. The HZ has changed. It's demographics are older, a bit antisocial, and somewhat depressed. Space is for the young at heart and as folks age they like the comfort of socialism, they look forward to the New Deal accoutrements and promises. They want socialized healthcare because it makes them feel more secure. It doesn't matter if its an illusion and that the security is in their minds. It doesn't matter that the government could stop the SS checks and medicare benefits anytime and say 'tough' luck. And that socialist doctors actually care far less about you than a doctor you pay out of your own money.

You constantly threaten and attack their comfort zone Tom. You are stripping away that security blanket with each post and they simply try to tune you out. Sure, there are exceptions, but largely the primary participants at the Zone these days share this mindset and outlook to some degree.

Do you remember the guy on MSNBC who would post manifestos about creationism? He wanted to find a like spirit, a follower or an reaffirming voice. He never found it there.

The "intelligent" people who might be able to come to some of the same conclusions you have are mostly gone. There are intelligent people here, to be sure, but as I mentioned - they are older and experience has taught them to grab a rope or a security blanket when it's offered.

You pounding your head against the tree here is a sight that pains one. Once you understand WHY most of the people here embrace socialism and disdain capitalism, you will see it has everything to do with their own personal circumstances and what they feel is in their best interests.

Grand plans, dreams and independent visions all too often are allowed to quietly die by people when they age. Dependency is not just fostered by drugs. We are living in a society that fosters dependancy, insecurity and fear. The results are all around you, in your neighborhood, in your state, in this nation and throughout the world.

You're fighting the forces of dependency and you will lose that fight. Because you are fighting fear. And fear is one of the most powerful drives and emotions.

You don't have to abstain from sharing your views, that's preposterous. However, once you see the big picture here, view in your mind all the different participants at the other keyboards and reach into their minds and analyze their perspectives - you will see that the effort here is largely futile - if you seek likeminded viewpoints.

'Conversion' of others views is mostly futile - not just here, but all over the world.