"A.N.S.W.E.R., the Worker's World organization, and many of the other openly communist organizations backing these demonstrations,"

Oh yes, Tom, I am well aware. Again, who backs them/finances them is irrelevant. As I said- the hard core irreational religious right finances many republican candidates, but those candidates are still worth at least listening to with an even and open mind. You seem to be trying to employ some sort of categorical dismissal based on company loosely kept.

"There are no "democratic" collectivist societies."

Yes, and the democratic socialism of say France, Germany, Norway, etc is not democracy? Ever been to norway? It is quite collectivist. The bottom Tax is something like just over 50% all added-up, and it grows from there.

"There CANNOT be a "democratic" collectivist society. The very concept of socialism requires massive centralized economic and political control to function as a socialized economy."

More bullshit. I claim that there are countries that are both collectivist and democratic. They also support limitied free enterprise (Norway etc). I don't wanna live there for longer than a year, and I don't want that system, but they exist.

As for your little blurb on socioeconomic theory, its far from a given granted point. Aside from the fact that there are counterexamples, even the theoretic model to which you point is not without contention... In fact is not even held up as the dominant model.

"It's self-evident to anyone who follows how the mechanism of collectivized societies have to work."

Ah, You are right because it is self-evident to a select few and a single outdated author on the topic who, despite my (granted only modest) economics training, I don't ever remember seeing on a required reading list. Riiiight. That and 20 cents will get you a paradigm.

"And even if you choose to ignore the philosophical reasoning, "

which are? I'm waiting- most likely in vain.

"Every single nation that has adopted a collectivist way of organizing itself has ended up as a totalitarian hellhole up to its knees in corpses."

This is as confused as, say, world history as told by Iranian text books. The only case that you can adequately and supportably make from history, IMHO, is that a lot of totalitarian jerk-offs have used and/or adapted this philosophy as an instrument to sway the popular support of oppressed peasant classes.

"Sorry if you don't like the word "Stalinist." I know why it makes leftists uncomfortable--don't know why it bothers you."

Because, as I said, its lazy ubsubstantiatable bullshit to take people who are *democratic* socialists and equate them to a mass murderer, and its all the more repugnant when it is voiced by someone so obviously intelligent and educated.

Davin L.