Argh! Links again
The MKO stuff
here
and in case that link does not show, the URL is: http://www.habitablezone.com/currentevents/messages/50668.html
the Salman Pax stuff (pepperd throughout thread):
here
and again, incase the link does not show, the URL is:
http://www.habitablezone.com/currentevents/messages/281699.html";