The latest from Chris Vancil:

Chris writes: Right Barry, you can't complain that you are having trouble starting a new thread and also claim to be first in a thread.

SORRY PAL, FOR WHATEVER REASON I COULD NOT MAKE A NEW POST. ONE OF YOUR PALS IDEAS? SO I POSTED IN THE REPLY SECTION. I WILL DO WHAT I HAVE TO TO BE HEARD.

As I recall it you called me a liar for saying the Mars Society was in part supporting Beagle II.

PILLINGER CALLED THE MARS SOCIETY A LIAR REMEMBER? SINCE PILLINGER HIMSELF SAID YOU GUYS WERE ON A FANTASY IN REGARDS TO SUPPORTING THE MICROSCOPE AND HAVE NOT READ ANYTHING FROM YOU SINCE ABOUT MARS SOCIETY FUNDS GOING TO THE BEAGLE 2 PEOPLE, JUST WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU RAMBLING ABOUT? IF YOU AREN'T LYING WHAT ARE YOU DOING? OH YEA...MISINFORMATION. SO TELL US CHRIS -- HOW MUCH FUNDING DID THE MARS SOCIETY GIVE THE BEAGLE 2 PROJECT? PLEASE GIVE DOLLAR AMOUNT?

In support of your name calling you then did another cut and paste job leaving out the Pillinger's praise of the Mars Society and clarification on what was needed to be done by us to become sponsors. I asked Barry for proof we didn't do as Pillinger suggested in the article. I haven't heard back on that.

HERE IS THE LINK AGAIN WITH THE "PRAISE." HERE IS WHAT PILLINGER REALLY SAID ABOUT THE MARS SOCIETY SUPPORT OF BEAGLE 2 MICROSCOPE:

LINK AT:
http://www.space.com/searchforlife/mars_microscope_000817.html

"While the microscope is on the Beagle 2's manifest of science instruments, the Mars Society's claim of sponsorship of the device is incorrect, said a top official of the Beagle 2 project."

SOUNDS LIKE A LIE TO ME CHRIS!

"This deal certainly does not exist," said Colin Pillinger, lead scientist for the Beagle 2 effort, and professor of planetary sciences research at the Open University, located in Milton Keynes, the United Kingdom.

SOUNDS LIKE A LIE TO ME CHRIS!

"I welcome the enthusiasm of the Mars Society, there's no doubt about that. However, all sponsorship arrangements regarding Beagle 2 have to be arranged via the project. So separate deals with anybody on the team are not appropriate," Pillinger told SPACE.com."

GOOD POLITICS ON PILLINGERS PART.

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT. WHO LIED AND WHO DIDN'T?

All sponsorship arrangements are negotiated solely by Beagle 2 project officials or the London-based M&C Saatchi Sponsorship Ltd, who joined with Beagle 2 to coordinate the commercial development of the project, Pillinger said.

NAME THEM! POST A LINK I CAN READ.

Barry wrote: I was a member of the Mars Society in 2000, but after I found out what a useless organization it was (mainly it seemed as an excuse to "exclusively" sell Dr. Zubrin's books about Mars at their conventions - they were in boxes at every door at the convention and no other speaker weas allowed to sell their books) and how they were in denial about planetary protection issues and life on Mars, so I decided not to renew my membership. The feeling I got was that most of the people that attend these conventions might also go to Star Trek conventions. That's fine -- but let's not call this thing about running around in canvas sapce suits real science. This is theatre - a publicity stunt involving hundreds of thousands of dollars to draw the media and the general public into a awareness to fund a human mission to Mars. I prefer my tax dollars to be spent on the real ongoing robotic missions to Mars until the life issue is settled, not some dinner theatre troup pretending they are living on Mars in the Utah desert. The scientists in Antarctica have demonstrated survival in much harsher conditions and without canvas spacesuits.

Chris writes: Barry I've attend all five conventions and you are in fact are lying about Zubrin's book being at every door during the 2000 convention or for that matter at any of them!

YOU ARE THE LIAR. I SAW THEM WITH MY WIFE -- BOXES AND BOXES OF ZUBRINS BOOKS IN FRONT OF THE DOORS. NO ONE ELSES WERE THERE. PLUS, I WAS TOLD THAT ONLY ZUBRIN COULD SELL HIS BOOKS AT THE CONVENTION. I WAS TOLD THIS BY MAGGIE ZUBRIN WHO ALSO TOLD ME I COULD NOT SELL ANY OF MY BOOKS THERE EVEN THOUGH I WAS A GUEST SPEAKER. I KNEW RIGHT THEN I WASN'T INTERESTED IN THE MARS SOCIETY ANYMORE. IN OTHERWORDS, I GOT THEIR NUMBER...

Bob's books where at one table

LIAR. THEY WERE AT EVERY ENTRANCE - THAT I WAS AT ANYWAY. ABOUT FIVE ROOMS HAD BOXES OF ZUBRINS BOOKS IN FRONT OF THEM. I THOUGHT THE MARS SOCIETY WAS NON-PROFIT? HMMM....

Barry wrote: Finally, I have been observing the moon and planets all my life with various sizes of telescopes. This year I will be photographing the great opposition of Mars with my 10" Meade LX5. I wonder how many of the Mars Society people are actually observers and have telescopes as well? When I was invivted as a guest speaker to the Toronto Mars Society Convention in 2000, no one I spoke with seemed to have a telescope to look at Mars. I thought this was odd considering the lengths they go through to send people there.

Chris writes: I don't quite understand your logic here? Lots of folks in the Mars Society have telescopes (mine is an old 4" newtonian). There will be a star party at the Convention. I do this Star Party every few years at a place called Table Mountain and there you will see thousands of people with telescopes and most of these folks spend most of their free time doing nothing but observing... I've a friend who is a professional astronomer he owns no telescopes and rarely looks thru an eyepieces of those he uses... I've another friend who is a scientist who worked on the Viking Landers MET science he has no telescope that I know of...he's to busy working on sending spacecraft to Mars.

IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH REALITY I GUESS. PEOPLE WHO DRESS UP IN CANVAS SPACE SUITS REMIND ME OF THOSE FOLKS ATTENDING STAR TREK CONVENTIONS. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AS LONG AS YOU REALIZE STAR TREK IS A FANTASY. HOWEVER, I SUPPOSE YOU THINK DRESSING UP AS A KLINGON OR STAR TREK CAPTAIN IS A WAY TO DO REAL SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH TOO? IS THIS REAL SAPCE SIMULATION TO YOU? MAYBE YOU THINK GOING ON THE SET OF THE ENTERPRISE AT MGM STUDIOS IS REAL RESEARCH??? WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PEOPLE DRESSING UP AS KLINGONS AND STARSHIP CAPTAINS AND PEOPLE PRETENDING THEY ARE ON MARS WEARING CANVAS SPACESUITS? NONE THAT I CAN SEE EXCEPT THE SUITS WORN BY THE TREKKIES ARE MORE CREATIVE!

WHAT A JOKE. I AM CONVINCED THAT THE MARS SOCIETY IS ABOUT MAKING CERTAIN PEOPLE IN IT MONEY. THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY AND I EXERCISE MY RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH. THAT IS MY OPINION. AND YOU ARE WELCOME TO YOURS.

BD