You can indeed make a very good case that many modern totalitarian abuses stem from the same basic philosophical and epistemological flaws that create totalitarian religions. Once you realize that Marxism is essentially a religion--one distinguishing feature being that it is a creed held in abstract in stubborn defiance of objective reality, then you open up a whole new line of thinking.

While most people realize that Nazism and Marxism are two sides of the same collectivist philosophical coin, it can probably also be said that some of the abusive religions (radical Islam, medieval Christianity) sprout from the same roots.

It all stems from the same thing: a belief that one has an abstract absolute knowledge, above and apart from any objective data or observations to the contrary, and that one is entitled to act on it regardless of the consequences. It is sad and ironic that a few groups who claim to be secular humanist and against religion for this reason, often aspire to the philosophy of Marx. Unclear on the concept.

"It is said that science will dehumanise people and turn them into numbers. That is false, tragically false. Look for yourself. This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. This is where people were turned into numbers. Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by arrogance. It was done by dogma. It was done by ignorance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods.

"Science is a very human form of knowledge. We are always at the brink of the known, we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error, and is personal. Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible. In the end the words were said by Oliver Cromwell: 'I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken'.

"I owe it,as a scientist to my friend Leo Szilard, I owe it as a human being to the many members of my family who died at Auschwitz, to stand here by the pond as a survivor and a witness. We have to cure ourselves of the itch for absolute knowledge and power. We have to close the distance between the push-button order and the human act. We have to touch people."

-- Jacob Bronowski; "The Ascent of Man," page 374

That being said, I still don't believe that religious tyranny is a critical issue in modern America for most people. There are more immediate concerns. Like I said in a previous post, if you want to grouse about the Patriot Act, you'd at least have more reasons to worry.

I appreciate your historical view, but I can look at the history of the world and find a lot of trends that run through the past two thousand years that are not really on the front burner any more. While it is important to keep history in mind, that does not always make it relevant to modern priorities. There is no Spanish Inquisition right now. There are no clergy burning people anymore in America.

Through most of history, people owned slaves. They owned slaves not that long ago in the United States. This does not mean a main fear of an American black kid in New York should be that somebody will grab him, throw him in chains, and haul him out to the fields.* The issues for many black people are still difficult, but they are different now.

This practice still had power over people in spite of the separation of church and state instituted by the infant Constitution, because that's the kind of power religion can wield: the power to threaten damnation in the next world, the power to isolate and intimidate in this one.

A short historical note that is often forgotten: the First Amendment restricted the Federal government's right to establish a religion. There was no intent to prevent individual states from doing so, and some did. It is fortunate that the idea of "no establishment of religion" trickled down over the history of America so that it has become pretty much cast in stone on the state level as well.

As for the last part of your post, again, where the hell do you live that people do this stuff? Someone threatened your kids if they didn't convert? Anywhere I've EVER lived, this would have gotten some local religious nuts some serious bruises if not broken bones. Of course, like I said, I've never lived anywhere that has the concentration of religious nuts you seem to have. Are these Mennonites? Some other odd local sect? You are the only person I've ever heard of that seems to dwell in some Puritan time warp.

I can understand given your situation why you might have a low threshold of nerves concerning religion. But for most of the country, it isn't the largest threat to our liberties, either inside the country or out.

*Sadly, it is a fear for others in the world, and even for a few immigrants in America. National Geographic had an excellent article on this subject.