Barry wrote: The life issue will have to be settled with robots. You send humans to Mars and you contaminate it. If humans die on Mars due to microbes you have lost all public support for space exploration for everal hundred years.

Chris writes: I can see this is like human factors and engineering in general you don't get it... I've studied spacesuits and airlock design, Barry. I'm willing to bet you have not. No, people don't have to be contaminated on Mars nor does the surface of the red planet have to be "contaminated" by us. We have the ability to design systems that prevent this. And you have no evidence that a death on Mars would be any worst than one going into orbit or on reentry. We still have a human space program now after two tragedies, Challenger and Columbia. 14 people have dies...well actually 17 people have died directly working in a spacecraft in the USA. Besides the odds of that happening are so astronomically small as to be absurd.

I wrote: And if there is no life on Mars how many years do you feel we should waste?

Barry replies: If there is no life on Mars (and that could take quite a while to prove, perhaps fifty years), we should then send a human scientific mission if there are finnancial resources to do so. The Moon would be a great place to start and rehearse for a trip to Mars. Plus it would be a great place to set up a sample receiving laboratory.

Chris writes: I'm sure you think all this true. But I'm coming to the conclusion you haven't the basic understanding of the subject to make reasonable judgement with.

I wrote further: "BTW, I've state I dont feel you can reasonably describe a year long mission as Flags and Footprints."

Barry wrote: Doesn't matter how long it takes to get there if all you are going to do is an Apollo style survey and leave, that would be just just "flags and footprints". If you are talking about a stay of a few weeks or months, I would agree that the scientific payoff would be worth it." But then why send any other human missions after that? What purpose would it serve other than draining every possible dime out of the economy? At this stage of our soceital woes, it is a mere nobel fantasy.

Chris writes: I know you don't get this Barry, Orbital Dynamics is science and engineering. I wasn't talking of the trip there, but the stay either in orbit or on the surface of the red planet. You could stay only ~20 days or then you are committed to at the very least ~1 year, but most likely ~1.5 to ~2 years (btw, Earth years). This all depends on the method of propulsion used. Which itself effects the travel time from as little as ~3 to as much as ~9 months each way. But then this is effluenced by the particular solar orbit chosen...conjunction or opposition or a hybrid...

Flags and Footprints as it is used with the Moon was a few days not years! I think it is rendered meaningless when talking years and is in fact a red herring as most of the Lunatics handwaving is. If you think a Mars colonization efforts or repeated mission into the 100 of billions of dollars would drain our economy of every dime. Then you don't have a clue how large the economy is!