and that has been known by the general public since 1965 - though a few "Mars enthusiasts" like those found here still cling to an Earth-like Mars, as some do to a flat-Earth.

That is why work was stopped in 1965 on manned Mars ships. That is why production of the Saturn class launchers was stopped. That is why development of nuclear rocket engines was stopped. The general public could care less about sending men to the real Mars.

Now although these facts have been recognized by serious space analysts for several years now, at least since my note on "Viking at 25", the Mars Enthusiasts simply can not accept them, just as they can not accept that Mars is not Earth-like.

The shuttle was intended to reduce launch costs to the point at which it would still make sense to the general public to fly manned Moon and Mars missions. But the shuttle's design was flawed, mainly through the politically forced adoption of solid fueled motors instead of liquid fueled ones. If liquid fueled motors had of been used for the shuttles, US dominance of the launch industry would have been unchallengable, due to the economies of scale provided by the use of those boosters as stand alone launch vehicles...

Of course, trying to discuss this amid all the noise of some "CATS" is difficult. The Congress has been faced with the problem of trying to conduct serious discussion about space architectures and public policy amid these idiots' rantings. The result has been the trashing of the reputations of many good people, and the trashing of the US space industry, as US space market sector share has fallen and fallen amid the noise of these idiots' shoutings...

Fortunately, both the two Mars Exploration Rovers, Beagle, and Mars Express are all scheduled to arrive at Mars early next year. The data they return about Mars should put an end to this noise real fast.

In the meantime, both the President and the elected representatives will see to the welfare of those who have entrusted it to them. In short, the general public has no intention of going the way of the dinosaur, whatever the rantings of the Mars enthusiasts.

That is why the engineers' recommendations for Moon based telescopes will be accepted as a national goal.

ep

PS - by the way, Mark, yes, unlike an Earth-like Mars, those engineers do exist.

In closing, given the total lack of demand for manned Mars flight, your point about the lack of economies of scale for the use of Earth-Moon libation points is well made.