as in the Berger mess, it isn't whether the charges are true or not that matters, it's who makes the charges and when they're made. Is that it?

The guys in the ad are several of the same men in the Band of Brothers photo Kerry has used. They most definitely did serve with him in Vietnam. Get a clue - those Swift Boats operated in teams. If you're in the boat about 50 yards away from other boats, you get to know something about the other guys even if you're not sharing the same deck. Day in and day out, working in those kinds of teams, you quickly develop a reputation with the other people in your unit.

The men who are making these claims have every right to say them. They earned that right whether you like it or not. They were there. You weren't (and neither was I). Like Kerry, they're decorated Vietnam vets. Unlike Kerry, they didn't duck out after 4 months nor did they come back and slime other vets.

Now, the question is, Are they telling the truth?

Will "60 Minutes" investigate their story and give it multiple segments of airtime like they did to at least 3 anti-Bush books this year? Will pigs fly?

That's the sole question that matters. All of your objections about who is paying for the ad is so much bullshit meant to distract from the real question, just like your complaining about the timing of the release about Berger. If you want to go down the rathole of complaining about who is paying for the ads, perhaps we can look into who is financing outfits like MoveOn.org who have been trashing Bush for months. Do you want to go there?

Seriously, Tom, you actually had to ask if they're telling the truth or not? That goes beyond party loyalty into the realm of the insane.

You seem blinded by some party loyalty of your own and are projecting. If these guys are lying, then it will come out soon enough. If they wanted to do maximum damage to Kerry, they would've probably waited until a week before the election. As it is, they deserve to be heard and Kerry deserves the opportunity to address the claims. I doubt he will, though.