I like that one.
I would say you have found a neat little way to disagree with anything you don't find palatable to your tastes. After all, you CLAIM to be so logical here that everyone else is just carrying a "pantload" of something or other.
And you have to get past your buzz words...."morgellons and chemtrails" if we're ever going to have serious discussion about aerosol spray programs and nanotechnology and bio-warfare. You're sitting in the dark there Tom, in total denial of what's going on around you.

For instance this:
>" I dealt with contrails a long time ago, pointing out that by sheer physical necessity, tens of thousands of people involved at all levels of CIVILIAN airline construction and maintenance would have to know all about it and NOT TELL ANYONE."

Civilian, perhaps. But they're subject to gag orders too.
But what if it's military and is protected under "national security"? We've had lots of advanced aircraft developed and flying around made by "tens of thousands of people without telling anybody". They've managed to keep secrets for decades.

And here's another "logical impossibility". How did Hitler manage to gas so many Jews and ship them off in containers and pile their hair and gold from their teeth without the general public knowing? For YEARS?How many times has the US government used it's own citizens in a chemical or biological experiment without their knowing? Sometimes it takes DECADES to surface, long after the perpetrators are dead or gone.

Congress finally GAVE the government permission to do weather experiments last year. Do a Google search "Owning the weather 2025" and see what you come up with. You think they're not experimenting over our skies? So let's just get rid of the buzzword that upsets you so much and call it "aerosol spraying" instead.
And let's not forget that 7, 8 or 9 years ago whenever I posted something about the HAARP program over on the MSNBC Space Science Board, those posts would disappear off the front page in anywhere from 30 minutes to four hours depending on when I posted them. Not allowed to broadcast anything they might be doing up there for weather modification, communications or tesla technology.

>"I suspect most people who believe in things like this see only surfaces of things, and don't bother to follow the ideas through to the inevitable conclusions."

And that would definately be you. Why you would think YOUR typical brush-off of this discussion (barely under the radar for flaming me), should have any effect on whether this is happening or not?
Why should TB be any more important than the more than 100 serious organizations here in the US who want to know what Clifford Carnicom has found?

***Let it also be noted that United States government computer systems are to be used for official purposes only.***
Visitors to Clifford Carnicoms website:
1. Desert Research Institute in Nevada (weather modification research institution) (repeat visits)
2. Fort Lewis Army Military Base in the state of Washington (home of special forces air squadron)
3. Lockheed Martin (aviation and space defense contractor) (repeat visits)(repeat repeat visits)
4. Los Alamos National Laboratory (repeat visit)
5. Allergan Pharmaceutical Corporation (Allergy Pharmaceutical Research Company)
6. Alliant Techsystems (Space and Strategic Defense Systems contractor)
7. Raytheon Defense Systems (Defense Contractor) (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat visit)
8. BOEING AIRCRAFT COMPANY (100 visits minimum)
9. United States Defense Logistics Agency (supplies and support to combat troops)
10. Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Tuscon AZ (home of 355th Wing)(repeat visits)(repeat repeat visits)(repeat repeat repeat visit)
11. Dept of Defense Naval Computer and Telecommunications Area Master Station
12. U.S. Naval Sea Systems Command
13. Western Pacific Region of the Federal Aviation Administration, Lawndale CA. (repeat visit)(repeat visit) (repeat visit)
14. National Aeronautics and Space Administration Langley Research Center (10 visits minimum)
15. United States Environmental Protection Agency (20 visits minimum)
16. St. Vincent Hospital, Santa Fe New Mexico
17. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON
18. United States Department of the Treasury (repeat visit)(repeat visit)
19. United States Department of Defense Educational Activity
20. ANDREWS AIR FORCE BASE, PROUD HOME OF AIR FORCE ONE
21. United States Federal Aviation Administration
22. United States Naval Research Center, Washington D.C.
23. Rockwell-Collins (U.S. defense contractor)
24. Honeywell (U.S. Defense Contractor)(repeat visit)
25. Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton OH (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)
26. Kadena Air Force Base, Okinawa, Japan
27. Camp Pendleton, United States Marine Corps (mandatory US Defense anthrax vaccination program described at www.cpp.usmc.mil)(repeat visit)(repeat visit)
28. Ames Research Center, NASA (one of primary missions is to research ASTROBIOLOGY, i.e., the study of life in outer space) (repeat visit)
29. Space Dynamics Laboratory, Utah State University, North Logan, Utah
30. Merck (Pharmaceutical Products and Health Research)(repeat visit)
31. McClellan Air Force Base, Sacramento, CA. (The Sacramento Air Logistics Center at McClellan Air Force Base, California performs depot maintenance on the KC-135 Stratotanker aircraft and is heavily involved in space and communications-electronics.)(repeat visit)
32. TRW (U.S. Defense Contractor) (repeat visit)
33. Teledyne Brown Engineering (U.S. Defense Contractor)
34. United States Navy Medical Department
35. Air National Guard, Salt Lake City, Utah
36. Monsanto Company(Chemical, Pesticide, and Pharmaceutical products) (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visits)
37. U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
38. Arco Chemical Corporation
39. Sundstrand Aerospace (U.S. Defense Contractor)
40. National Oceanic and Atmospherics Administration Aeronomy Laboratory (conducts fundamental research on the chemical and physical processes of the Earth's atmosphere)
41. Allied Signal Corporation(chemical, aerospace, energy ) (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat repeat visit)
42. Aviation Weather Center, National Oceanic and Atmospherics Administration
43. United States Army Medical Department(repeat visit)
44. Nasa Goddard Space Flight Center
45. Applied Physics Laboratory, a research division of John Hopkins University, which supports the U.S. Defense Department
46. United States Naval Health Research Center, San Diego, CA
47. HEADQUARTERS, UNITED STATES ARMY, THE PENTAGON
48. United States General Accounting Office(The General Accounting Office is the investigative arm of Congress. GAO performs audits and evaluations of Government programs and activities.)
49. Bristol-Myers Squibb Company(Pharmaceutical Research and Development)
50. United States Naval Criminal Investigative Service(A worldwide organization responsible for conducting criminal investigations and counterintelligence for the Department of the Navy and for managing naval security programs. )
51. National Computer Security Center (NCSE) (Involved in advanced warfare simulation)
52. The Mayo Clinic(repeat visit) (repeat repeat visit) (repeat repeat repeat visit)
53. The Federal Judiciary(home of the United States Supreme Court)
54. United States Federal Emergency Management Agency(Controls a comprehensive, risk-based, emergency management program of mitigation, preparedness, response and recovery.)(repeat visit)
55. United States Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane IN(repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)
56. United States National Guard Public Affairs Web Access(no public access to this site)
57. UNITED STATES SENATE (repeat visit) (repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat repeat visit)
58. Headquarters, United States Air Force Reserve Command
59. Kaiser Permanente health organization
60. United States Naval Warfare Assessment Station
61. Air University, United States Air Force
62. United States Naval Research Laboratory(repeat visit)
63. Enterprise Products Partners L.P.(MTBE production)
64. United States Navy Naval Air Weapons Stations, China Lake CA
65. California Pacific Medical Center
66. United States Defense Information Systems Agency (mission: "To plan, engineer, develop, test, manage programs, acquire, implement, operate, and maintain information systems for C4I and mission support under all conditions of peace and war." )
67. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, New England
68. San Francisco Department of Public Health
69. BJC Health System, St. Louis, Missouri
70. United States Open Source Information Systems(OSIS)(an unclassified confederation of systems serving the intelligence community with open source intelligence) OSIS sites include: (AIA) Air Intelligence Agency, Kelly AFB, San Antonio, TX IC-ROSE (CIA) Central Intelligence Agency, Reston, VA (DIA) Defense Intelligence Agency, Washington, D.C. (NSA) National Security Agency, Ft. Meade, Laurel, MD (NIMA) National Imagery & Mapping AgencyFairfax, VA (NAIC) National Air Intelligence Center, Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, OH (NGIC) National Ground Intelligence Center, Charlottesville, VA (MCIC) Marine Corps Intelligence Center, Quantico, VA (NMIC) National Maritime Intelligence Center, Office of Naval Intelligence, Suitland, MD (ISMC) Intelink Service Management Center, Ft. Meade, Laurel, MD (repeat visit)
71. New Mexico Department of Health
72. United States Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command (SPAWAR)
73. United States McMurdo Research Station, Antartica
74. Orlando Regional Healthcare System, Florida
75. United States Andersen Air Force Base, Guam
76. United States Misawa Air Base, Japan
77. United States Hickam Air Force Base, Hawaii
78. United States Osan Air Force Base, Korea
79. Royal Air Force, Lakenheath, Suffolk
80. United States Scott Air Force Base
81. United States F.E. Warren Air Force Base
82. United States Air Force News Agency
83. United States Langley Air Force Base (repeat visit)
84. United States Tinker Air Force Base
85. United States McConnell Air Force Base
86. United States Charleston Air Force Base
87. United States Randolph Air Force Base
88. United States Air Force Reserve Command
89. United States Seymour Johnson Air Force Base
90. United States Bolling Air Force Base, Washington DC
91. Keesler Air Force Base, MS
91. United States Hill Air Force Base
92. United States Vandenberg Air Force Base, California
93. United States Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota
94. United States Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska
95. ANDREWS AIR FORCE BASE, PROUD HOME OF AIR FORCE ONE(repeat visit)
96. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON(repeat visit)
(Visitors 75-96 arrived within a 24 hour period 092399)
97. United StatesCannon Air Force Base, New Mexico
98. United States McQuire Air Force Base
99. United States Beale Air Force Base (home of the U-2 fleet of reconnaisance aircraft)
100. United States Department of Justice - Federal Bureau of Prisons
101. Metnet - United States Navy (associated with weather reporting system and SPAWAR)
102. TRADOC - United States Army Training and Doctrine Command, Fort Monroe, VA
103. Newsweek Magazine
104. United States Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
105. Massachusetts Medical Society, Owner - Publisher : New England Journal of Medicine
106. OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE : THE OFFICE OF WILLIAM S. COHEN, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE (repeat visit)
107. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON(repeat repeat visit)
108. UNITED STATES JOINT FORCES COMMAND (reports to US Secretary of Defense)(repeat visit)
109. Naval Warfare Assessment Station, Corona CA
110. Los Angeles County Emergency Operations Center
111. Commander in Chief, United States Pacific Fleet, United States Navy
112. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON
113. Defense Logistics Agency, Administrative Support Center in Europe
114. United Stated Department of Defense Network Information Center, Vienna, VA(repeat visits)
115. Office of the Assistant Secretary of the Army
116. Headquarters, United States Air Force, The Pentagon (repeat visit)
117. U.S. News and World Report
118. Naval Air Warfare Center - Aircraft Division (repeat visits)
119. New Zealand Parliament
120. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON(multiple repeat visits)
121. NIPR - Department of Defense Network Operations (NIPRNet); The Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA) has established a number of NIPRNet gateways to the Internet,
which will be protected and controlled by firewalls and other technologies.)(repeat visits)
122. Peterson Air Force Base, Colorado Springs, CO (home of NORAD and SPACECOM)
123. Raytheon (visits immediately after introduction of HAARP implications)
124. United States Army War College
125. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
126. Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory