Yes Jody, science and the awe of the universe around us.

You do know that I wasn't putting down any belief or philosophy you might have right? I was only pointing out that, no matter what you believe in, whether it be a spirit, some stone idol, cosmic rays, whatever, it's diminishing to your own talents and free will to give credit to anything but yourself and/or some degree of randomness for an accomplishment.

I knew your statement probably had as much meaning as when I utter "Oh God" during a conversation. For most of us it's merely habitual, more the result of years of exposure than any true statement of philosophy.

For some reason though, and maybe it's because of the number of times I've watched athletes thank Jesus for their win, that notion is particularly grating to me because of the sheer cluelessness and lack of logic involved in their conclusion.

Let's take that particular example. The final gun to the big college football game goes off and the interviewer rushes over to the star player for their reaction and you get: "I want to thank Jesus for this win."

Some assumptions must be made by a statement like this:

1. Jesus cares about this football game.
2. Jesus has a stake in the outcome.
3. Jesus likes one team more than he likes the other.
4. This bozo of an athlete has some personal contract with the holy guy that gave him an advantage over the religious people on the other team. The weren't as good at praying.
5. All the bad things that occurred during the game, injuries, penalties, frustrations, etc. were also controlled by Jesus. Either that or he just stepped in only when needed to ensure the win.
6. None of the other players on this idiot's team or the actions of the other team or even the enthusiasm of the fans had anything to do with the final outcome.

Agnostic is a perfectly fine label if one wants to associate with it. Many atheists I know get terribly put off by it because they see it as a sign of weakness and lack of commitment. What a load of garbage.

Art