Quoting S here:

> In this thread, we've entered a realm of free-wheeling speculation, so please don't think that I am being flippant.

Gotcha.

> As I've said before, the universe is sufficiently old to allow for the possibility of really advanced civilizations. To paraphrase Haldane, such might be only only stranger than we imagine, but stranger than we can imagine. We just don't have much to go on. For that reason, I think it foolish to dismiss out of hand all hearsay accounts/reports of UFOs
and/or aliens and their alleged activities here on Earth.

Haldane actually said "queerer" rather than "stranger", but since the
original word makes some modern folks a bit uneasy, they changed it
to the latter. Just being a stickler for historical accuracy here.

I do agree that at least some UFO reports bear more investigation;
even Project Bluebook said a few percentage of the reports they
received did not have any easy explanations. The problem I have with
most UFO reports is their sketchiness and the lack of reliability and the
gullibility of many witnesses. I am not even talking about the ones who
deliberately lie to get a kick out of messing with others or for a few
minutes of fame; I mean the ones who see anything they think is
unusual in the sky and automatically assume it is an alien spaceship.
I can understand the need to want something different and exciting
happening in our everyday lives, but it just messes up the data and
takes away from the chance of finding something really different.

The other problem in this area is the lack of real experts in the field.
Most UFO experts are self-proclaimed and self-made because most
mainstream scientists won't go anywhere near the subject. Some did
in the past, including the USAF, but their findings were often rejected
by either side of the field. And as much as some people hate hearing
this, science needs more than anecdotes to go on. And I am sure I will
hear about this in general, but I'll just wave my Freedom of Thought and
Speech card around.

> Beyond that, assuming that all beings (ETI) live only as long as we do is, I believe, anthropocentric. So, even if SOL travel is impossible for all, sufficiently long-lived creatures might undertake considerably more leisurely journeys. Indeed, there could conceivably be what might be termed vagabond civilizations who take the whole show on the road, so to say.

I agree. Not only could beings visit star systems using multigenerational
vessels, but I have often thought it might be safer and more efficient
not to live on an actual planet stuck at the bottom of their gravity wells.
Plus you get access to a lot more resources and travel is always good
for you no matter what your species.

> There are a number of parasitic species on Earth. Perhaps some ETI might be parasitic as well. Do you know of the Brown-headed Cowbird? The female cowbird lays her eggs in the nests of various host species which then raise the alien bird.

While I cannot remember its exact name, one of the most amazing
parasites I ever read about would bore into the brain of an ant, where
it would make the ant walk back and forth on a leaf or blade of grass
until a cow or similar herbivore ate the plant and the ant in the process.
Then the larvae the creature also implanted in the ant would begin to
grow inside the bovine.

> As for Fermi's Paradox, there are certainly any number of curious reports going back to antiquity. One can either dismiss them all outright, or one can allow for the possibility that there may be an element of truth in some.

It is true, I believe, that some medieval artists rendered what we would call UFOs in their paintings.

Not that I am dismissing all ancient reports, but in some cases our
ancestors may have been excercising their imaginations just as we do
via science fiction. I wonder if some far future folk might come upon
an SF novel about aliens and think it was telling a real story. We do
not give our ancestors enough credit for being as clever and imaginative
as we think of ourselves. But I do agree there are some really intriguing
reports from days of old that make me wonder just what the heck they
actually saw. If only they had cell phone cameras. :^)

> Establishment science is typically dismissive of what it does not understand. As you know, it was only a little over a century ago that the reality of meteorites was not only dismissed, but ridiculed.

"Rocks do not fall from the sky!"

But they do.

Mainstream science, while not perfect, does try to be objective. It is
also conservative by nature, which is often a good thing. Otherwise
we'll have everybody buying into everything and nothing will get done
except for chaos and ignorance.

I can see why olden days scientists (or natural philosophers) in their
attempt to bring some rationality to society would reject the seemingly
silly notion of rocks flying from the sky. However, the key difference is
that enough truly solid evidence did eventually come in and convince
them that rocks can fall from the heavens. Where is the equivalence
for UFOs?

> In any event, certain reports of apparent aliens and their activities have such an aura of strangeness that it is in our best interest, I believe, to at least allow for the possibility that some may be true, and consider the implications for our species and our planet.

As I said, the subject does warrant further study by at least a few
real experts. I wish there was some way that a university or other
institution could set this up so that those who participate won't be
afraid of garnering ridicule and losing their careers.

> S

S II