If I recall, a year ago, when the Right Wing rhetoric was at its worse I made the same complaint about this place, but 'flipped'. I remember what you said to me- do you?

It was something like: 'Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.'

I won't say anything of the like to you, not even on Flame, but you pointed out a lot of stuff that needs closer examination.

"There are currently 6-7 liberals on this board that are a detriment to civil dialogue. There have been from time to time 2 or 3 conservatives that were more or less the same but never 6-7. Some of that 6-7 have evolved, some have always been that way and some are newbies."

Its difficult for me to believe your claim of "6-7". I think you should give examples- and no, its not going to bother me that I am your number-one "pooty head". But aside from me, who is it that you could be talking about?

Seriously, though- Bowser? How is he un-civil? He does his share of flaming, but usually withstrained, well phrased and on this board. He draws conslusions that I don't agree with, that I think go too far (the claim that the men in fallujah were 'marked for death' by the US, and that Bush=Hitler), but he backs them up, doesn't he? How is he Un-civil? How can you compare hime to say, Phil at his most over-the-top.

Or maybe you mean the patron saint of nutters, Splinx? Splix is a harmless fool who tends to believe all sorts of wacky things- but how is he as uncivil as EBNelson? And frankly, I don't think most of the 'Liberals' on this board would 'Claim' splinx (or Odin). The conervatives don't 'claim' Lee- so why don't we throw all three of them in the loony bin.

R.L. gets a bit hyperbolic- but the thing you have to remember is that RL supported this war tenatively based mainly on the claims of WMD and Terrorist ties. He feels lied to, and now he is pissed! RL is the most articulate and patient explicator of Science and Technology that I have ever met, but Rhetoric is not really his Bag and he gets a bit over-the-top when he gets shook up about something. He is not calling anyone a 'Saddam Lover' or questioning their patriotism (Which is the usual ploy of the hard right on this board). Has he consigned entire sets of people to 'Degeneracy' (ala Derek) for doing something he is morally opposed to?

Odin? Odin is not a liberal, he's a troll.

So who is your '6-7' commies in the state d... I mean uncivil liberals?

So lets talk about where I fit in. I have never been a rhetorical delicate flower, and I don't make any apologies for that. I was not the type to back-off for the sake of 'love' when I started here (Tom once called me Mech Liberal, if I recall)- But I don't see that as a bad quality. I like bare-knuckle debate, and I get a kick out of my online persona (thats right, Frank, this is not the real me!)

And I don't apologize for anything I say on flame. Flamis is for never having to say 'I'm sorry'...

Over time, my rhetoric with the people I see as faith-driven and partisan has become harder, sharper and more pugnacious. But (as Mary Anne points out), it was a hardening based on the fact that I had to wade through Crap every time I dared to disagree with the party line here. I have been called a coward by Mark Eby, a pompous Ass by you, A Saddam Lover by EBNelson, and Appeaser by Phil, A coward by Larry J, a liar by half a dozen random right wingers (who can't, oddly, point to a post that contains a lie), An anti-patriot wanting our troops to die by Tom, a hippie radical by Tech One... Shall I continue?

I may be insulting and rude. But I always back up whta I say with Links and/or reasoned argument. Can you say the same for Nelson or some of your other bullies on the right side? Besides, what gets my goat left or right is unsubstantiated claims with no backing or flawed reasoning. I have torpedoed Splinx many times, and recently Odin as well, for the same reasons and with the same tone I go after people like Nelson and Larry J.

My dear Frank. You protest too much. You can't stand the heat? Leave the kitchen.... A Kitchen where you and your buddies have cooked the crow you are now being served. I'm not particularily fpleased to feed it to you- but the tone on this board was NOT set by the Liberals you are complaining about.

I still want you to name names. C'mon. Lets geet it on, as the saying goes. Otherwise: chill out, lay back and enjoy the bed you and your right wing pals made.

Davin L.