" I might take the opportunity to blow the cover on some fiction related to HZ."

Hmm, promise? That sounds really tantalizing! Are Robert and Justin really the same person? Is Tom B. A cross Dresser? OOH! Do tell!

"I will give you some clues and you can figure it out for yourself.
"

Actually, I still am at a loss outside of maybe 2. Look- I admit, there are some on the Left I don't find coherent, cogent or particularily well put together in the arguments they make. They strike me as True Believers just the same as some of those I take issue with on the right. I don't engage them (with the notable exception of splinx and odin) because there really is no point in having an argument with someone who you don't really disagree with.

Let me put it this way. Suppose you are looking at a blue sky, and a blind man walks up and says "that sky sure looks blue to me!". Do you argue with him? Whats the point?

"The list does not include you, who I find irritating at times but not really insulting"

Hehehe. I'm actually surprised at this. I dson't think I have seen you be as in-your-face and combative with anyone here as you have been at times with me.

"He's okay, good guy, lousy disposition."

But in someways, he is better at making some points than I am (not always IMHO, but sometimes ;-) ). So are Fox, Mary Anne, Tony and Alcary. My emphasis on honest use of rhetoric and logical rigor I think do not find purchase here, but the Ice Pick of mary anne and the rapier of Fox do actually cause the conservatives to take a point every now-and-then.... However transitory.

I think you are wrong about Raoul. I think what you take as insult and the putting down of America actually stems from the fact that he is a Ameriphile who is disappointed with what he seens as our failures to live up to our global, social and philosophical potential. I think he has a point.

"I still maintain that certain liberals are more personally insulting than the conservatives."

At best, All I can offer you is the agreement to disagree. Calling liberals ghouls reveling in the greusome horrific deaths of american soldiers serving their country is a loit more fucked up then insulting someones intelligence.

"Other's mentioned in your post were probably in most cases making a general comment which you rightly or wrongly chose to take as a personal insult. "

I think you attribute to me too much sensitivity. Thats a HUGE AMOUNT of undue insult to take. I'm pretty thick skinned, and as my encounters with you I think should prove to you- I can take as well as I can dish.

"The most irritating thing about you and Bowser and some others is the inability to realize that the same set of facts may say different things to different people and you don't have a corner on insight. "

I think this is where you have me completely and totally wrong. My emphasis on engagement, debate and reason stem precisely from that point. The Truth is a rare bird seldom seen by anyone, and the universe is mostly nonsensical noise. The same set of facts appear one way and then another based on perspective.

HOWEVER At the end of the day, there is but one Truth, and reason, empirical observation and testing claims of truth through discourse might help us get there.

I am actually chuckling as I write this- but do you remember all those posts where I said "Like is for salads, feeling is for shopping and romance, but if you take a gun and kill people, you better KNOW its the right thing to do". You must have missed that point a dozen times.

Key to my worldview is that war must be predicated on the best truth available, and if the predications of a war rest on foundations that can be shaken by discourse, then its a war you damn well shouldn't be fighting. Because you MAY end up being a murderer.

" There are stupid people in the world but stupidity is not required to see things differently."

No, but things are either True or False or Improperly phrased- Do you agree or not? And isn't discourse with bright folks key to finding out what is True and what is False?

I still think that direct ad hominem like stupid, moron, obtuse are more offensive and that has been more the province of liberals.

The day you see the burned corpses of americans, and then log onto here and see people crowing aboiut how happy you must be is the day I think you will change that feeling. But that is a matter of opinion.

Davin L.