Let's see, R.L.
You're implying that you have to be an atheist to be a philosopher?

WHERE did I imply that? NEVER have I ever said that the religious cannot be good scientists or philosophers!! Newton was devout as were many of the great scientists... I have known personally many devout people that were also quite religious.

The thing is, ID is NOT a science or philosophy- it deliberately distorts the facts and LIES about the science of evolution...

As far as scientists are concerned?... Most registered scientists
"believe" in God, or in a deity of sorts [that must shock you, R.L.].


Nope, see the above...

And if most registered scientists believe in God [in one form or another]
than it stands to reason [A followed by B] that they also believe
that their perceived God had some role [or a major role] in creating things in the universe
...That sounds alot like ID.


Nope, it sounds nothing like ID... Belief in a supreme being does not exempt scientists from scientific rigor when doing science... Here is an example:

"Explanation of the observed structure and elemental composition of the Orion nebula"

Author: E. VanGelist

Abstract: "God did it"

Text: "God did it"

Think the above paper would/should be accepted? Do you think that it deserves 'equal time' in the classroom?

How would you like to see the following on 'Astronomy picture of the day':

Explanation:Analyses of a new high-resolution map of microwave light emitted only 380,000 years after the Big Bang appear to define our universe more precisely than ever before. The eagerly awaited results announced last year from the orbiting Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe resolve several long-standing disagreements in cosmology rooted in less precise data. Specifically, present analyses of above WMAP all-sky image indicate that the universe is 13.7 billion years old (accurate to 1 percent), of course the universe may well be ~6,000 years old according to the bible, after all- all viewpoints and opinions are equally valid and we certainly dont want to imply that some are just astoundingly wrong. So, the universe is 13.7 billion years old to an accuracy of 1%, but it could be 6,000 years old

Yup, that sounds fair...

You see, ID is NO MORE VALID than the above examples- In fact it is LESS valid- it LIES about the demonstrated science behind evolution, and it offers NOTHIN in the way of scientific proof- Given this, there is NO reason for it to be in the classroom...

Of course you, R.L., will turn your proverbial blind eye to such information
gathered by accredited pollsters on scientist's personal lives and beliefs.


I dont give a damn if 'Accredited pollsters' claim most scientists believe in 'Cthulu, the many headed Aztec Demon God'... science is NOT a democracy... Gallileo claimed the universe was not the center of the universe- if science was a democracy then we would still say he was wrong... The religious powers threatened him and FINALLY apologized a few centures later.

Frankly, R.L., I'm sick and tired of your Judeo-Christian bashing.
I think many Christians, muslims and religious Jews will be greatly offended by you.
I suppose you keep to rather small social circles in Hawaii as a result...


WHERE have I bashed anyone's religion? I HAVE said that those that wish to impose THEIR religion on everyone else are fanatics... They should NOT be able to have their religion to be FORCED into our classrooms...

You are rather ignorant of many historical benefits your nation acquired under Judeo-Christian culture.
And your obtuseness when it comes to debating the possibility that there is the possibility of a latent and even an active supra-intelligence at work in the cosmos is shows how pitiful you are as both an intellect and a person in general.



Yeah, I am terribly ignorant of all those benifits... just as I am ignorant of all the negatives... like wiping out of entire cultures because they are 'godless savages'... like oppressing valid science because it contradicts religious dogma- I think some of these atrocities would happen without religion, but religion was a conveinient excuse. Get this through your skull, I have no problem with religion, unless the devout try to force their religion on others, THAT is what ID is about!!!

(1) FACT NUMBER ONE: Science does not have all the answers, and for those answers it cannot supply, you go outside science [to philosophy or theology, to debate something like ID]

IF science had all the answers then there would be no point in going into science, would there...? NO, science does NOT have all the answers- it DOES have the answers that really work in the real world... religion only has answers to problems and questions in your internal world. 'Why are we here?', 'What is the proper way to live your life?', 'Can I eat pork?'... THESE are the questions that religion can 'answer'- it cannot answer: 'what were the possible chemical origins of life?', 'how old is the universe?', 'What is the proper trajectory to send a probe to Mars?', 'What will we learn from a 12 billion year old supernova?'...

(2) FACT NUMBER TWO: Science is limited in scope...those hitherto hidden or unseen possibilities that science is incapable of analyzing or investigating fall under the realm of philosophy and or theology.
[THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE CANNOT BE A TRANSCENDENT LINK TO SCIENCE
WHEN IT COMES TO DEALING WITH ID]....



No... not really... they fall into the realm of speculation. Some things, I agree, science will not be able to address... Science can, and has, addressed ID- and ID has been shown to be a lie and the religious agenda that it is... ID is dishonest and has NO PLACE in our classrooms.

(3) FACT NUMBER THREE: The religious fanatics have an agenda? Yes, true!... So do you, R.L.....
So does the entire cadre of science dwelling and professing its creed in the ivory towers
and hallowed halls of science around the world....What scares me about the hidden agenda of scientists is that the intellectual cabal in support of science regularily deny that they have a "hidden agenda". And that same Cabal resorts to threats, warnings, and even insults
and denerations to back up its 'assertions'.
You want to know someone with an "hidden agenda?"...The evidence for it is that they DENY they have one.


Do I have an agenda? HELL YES! I do NOT want someone else's religion imposed on me or others- you have a problem with that?

Another thing that annoys me to no end is the assumption by the ignorant and uneducated that there is some sort of 'conspiracy' among scientists to oppress the 'common folk'... PLEASE tell me how this 'intellectual cabal' has oppressed you... but first look at your goddamn computer and the internet that you are using and allowed you to speak your drivel world wide... Yeah.. You are one poor bastard suffering under this 'cabal' aren't you?

Rene Descarte was a scientist, a mathematician. a theologian [who would agree with ID]
and he was also a philosopher.

I doubt it, but I will leave that question to my brother....

You're spouting empty rhetoric without backing up your nonsense with any facts.
Should we trust scientists like you to guide the moral, ethical Guess you can't complete the statement

WHAT FACTS DID YOU PRESENT? Did you get immunized? Did you buy a computer? Did you partake of safe running water? Did you enjoy the pictures from Cassini and the Mars rovers? Do you like the fact that processor speed is doubling every couple of years? Do you like calling a friend across a continent? Do you like not having to ride a horse to work? Do you like the fact that we can cure diseases that would kill you a decade ago?

If you have a problem with the above then that is really your problem, not mine... the fact is you MUST accept that you owe your quality of life to this 'cabal'... THOSE BASTARDS!!!!!

Get a grip, Jacob- your religion is NOT my problem....