<On the other end of the spectrum, the moral record this century of atheist socialism [emphasis mine] speaks for itself (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, and others. Eighty million victims so far.) There is a not-inconsiderable record of these types "dictating the good to their fellow citizens" too. Not that this has anything at all to do with liberals, right?

Tom, what is wrong with you??? Did part of your brain get stuck in the 1950s? You sound like Sister Mary Ronald: "If the Russian Army invades America, do you know the first thing they'll do? They'll march all of you [the First Communion class, a bunch of 7-year-olds] into the sacristy of the church and demand that you renounce your faith. They'll shoot anyone who doesn't with their machine guns." (This was supposed to steel us to be soldiers of the Faith. Even at 7, it occurred to me that an occupying Russian army might have other priorities.) Oh, those cruel, sadistic, murderous atheists!

Never mind that Stalin and Mao were motivated by very distinct forms of nationalism peculiar to their nations. (Stalin's acts resembled tsarist behavior at its worst, trimmed with the flair for murder obvious in 20th century totalitarian regimes in general. Mao was a child of anti-Imperialism, in an era when the imperialist running dogs were Europeans, not Americans. Remember the Boxer Rebellion?) Pol Pot was a close student of the Terror of the French Revolution. It showed.

Do I really have to list the religious wars of this world to get you to stop this? Need I point out all the religious slaughter that still goes on? Do I have to mention that there are world leaders of the 20th and 21st centuries who espouse a particular religion and yet have no trouble killing people anyway? Peron, Pinochet, Tojo, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein: there's a group for you.

To quote Tom Lehrer in his bouncy little ditty, "National Brotherhood Week", "Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics, and the Catholics hate the Protestants, and the Moslems hate the Hindus, and everybody hates the Jews."

Also, I know it's so fun to call Hitler a socialist because his party was called the National Socialists, but he was a Fascist, pure and simple, because he didn't believe in internationalism, and he didn't even pretend that the workers were the crux of his economic policies. He talked about the People, the Volk, but his meaning was clear: Germany as a nation, an ethnic and nationalist entity, not as an economic unit, and certainly not with any special place for the proletariat. Socialists don't do that. The Nazis imprisoned socialists and communists in the concentration camps. Socialists and communists wore their very own patches (red triangles, for political prisoners) on their prison uniforms.

Please don't make the mistake of placing Nazi Germany in the group of "atheist socialist nations". The Nazi state had at least one sanctioned religion: German Lutheranism, with the anti-Semitic writings of Luther as the foundation of Nazi approval. Later, a form of the Teutonic pantheon was also revived, recognized, and even praised by the Nazi government. Hitler, a Wagner fan, was certainly aware of the identity of Odin.

I can find plenty of examples of the Right "dictating the good to their fellow citizens". They seem to be preoccupied with regulating sex, however, and inflicting the 10 Commandments on non-Biblical citizens, as if a courtroom were someone's family room.

Atheists and agnostics, in my experience, don't want to prevent anyone from practicing their religion. We only want believers to stop practicing it on us. As for this body count thing, can you say "holy war"?

If you're going to make outrageous, insulting statements, you can at least be accurate.

Regards--
Mary Anne