"Yes, I pulled 80 percent out of a hat, but if it isn't at least that high, I would be surprised."

Which
1) Was what I was pointing out, that it came out of a hat and
2) As your equivocation admits, tyopu have NO CLUE WHAT THE PERCENTAGE IS.

and
3) AGAIN,ARE YOU DEAF? You said the entire environmental movement!

"I repeat the challenge that you are unable to find me one bloody exception to my statement that the major American and international environmental groups that actually influence policy, both in America and around the world, are solidly statist, that is, they believe that almost all economic activity should be controlled by a powerful centralized authority."

Yeah, yeah yeah, Tom, As per what Robert said, your definition of a leftist is so broad that it includes friggin Andrew Carnegie... You got a clintonian equivocation going on.

But:
there is always the REP to bring up

But you will probably jump up and down and moan about what you *really* meant by 'influence'. But under that, greenpeace has NO friggin influence in american politics.

Last I looked into it, the Arborday foundationa nd the sierraclub were politically neutral. in fact the sierra club supports John Chafee, a

conservative :

"Republican Sen. John Chafee--the leading Republican environmentalist in the Senate--is a conservationist in the Teddy Roosevelt tradition. Chafee's influential position as ranking Republican on the Senate Environment Committee makes his reelection even more critical. If defeated, his position on this key committee would be assumed by Wyoming's Alan Simpson, who has a dismal environmental voting record."

I'm sure John Chafee would be interested to know that he has a positive relationship with a statist-communist-boogeyboogeyman organization.

"It has been done in the past...maybe you'll get lucky. "

I don't need any luck Tom. Ive busted you at least twice. Reagan Deficits and Ansar Al Islam.

But you often ignore posts, too, where you can't defend your position, or are challenged to in the face of data that contradicts yours....

Like this for example

chafee supports Polluter Pays legislation... So maybe you consider him a socialist?

Keep on wriggling around with your vague an personally charged definitions, and please do whine and wimper if anyone trys to pin you down. I am starting to bookmark them so I can rub your nose in 'em next time you talk about 'liberals equivocating' or somesuch.

Best
Davin