No, it is you

Space/Science » in reply to EP, it's YOU who is focussed on Ramon - not me

No, it is you

E.P. Grondine — 9/20/2004 5:47:16 PM (archived)

The fact that Ramon was Israeli is not relevant to me.

The facts that Ramon was a fighter pilot in top physical condition, one with experience in bailing out, are the only immediately relevant facts.

Again, I do not know with any certainty whether the crew cabin survived intact to this point in time, and right now I can not even recall who else was on the lower deck.

I want to emphasize to you again that going through this whole thing again and again and again is painful to me - and I'm sure that it is for others as well.

The problem is denial, and the way it manifests itself - This is peculiar to every individual. On a fundamental level, most people, at least the ones here, do not want to face up to how bad NASA had become. How this denial manifests itself depends on their own minds.

Given that it is painful, why do this? If you like, ignore everything that I've ever written on Columbia. Just on the mechanics alone, would not the installation of systems independent bailout indicators on the shuttle hatch doors make sense?

ep

The whole thread (69 posts)

Columbia hatch found in Lufkin, Texas - it needs to be fingerprinted - E.P. Grondine - 9/16/2004 5:11:32 PM
- Do gloves leave fingerprints, EP? (n/t) - ebnelson - 9/20/2004 2:57:38 PM
  - covered in depth below (n/t) - E.P. Grondine - 9/20/2004 4:11:59 PM
- Hasn't ANYONE noticed?? - Daniel L - 9/19/2004 7:00:58 PM
  - Grondine is a hack... - R.L. - 9/20/2004 7:34:30 AM
  - I am sure that they have. - E.P. Grondine - 9/20/2004 4:32:38 AM
    - Nice try. - Tom Brosz - 9/20/2004 4:12:32 PM
      - He should air his views openly on CE or Offtopic instead of disguising them here in this way (n/t) - Daniel - 9/20/2004 4:51:32 PM
    - Wrong: I am NOT accusing you of that. Here is my 'declaration of principle' - - Daniel L - 9/20/2004 10:19:15 AM
      - Thank you for your apology - - E.P. Gorndine - 9/20/2004 4:09:25 PM
        
        EP, it's YOU who is focussed on Ramon - not me - Daniel - 9/20/2004 4:37:40 PM
        
        No, it is you - E.P. Grondine - 9/20/2004 5:47:16 PM
        
        There were four other fighter pilots in that cabin. You're not making your case. (n/t) - Tom Brosz - 9/20/2004 6:04:40 PM
        
        The case - E.P. Grondine - 9/21/2004 5:37:56 AM
  - (sorry et - I realize you, like Tom and Keith, DID notice) - Daniel - 9/19/2004 7:19:19 PM
- Reality check. - Tom Brosz - 9/17/2004 12:13:24 AM
- You urgently need to explain that fingerprinting comment. - et - 9/16/2004 5:27:38 PM
  - Done below - E.P. Grondine - 9/16/2004 5:34:42 PM
    - complete asinine garbage (n/t) - R.L. - 9/17/2004 5:56:48 AM
      - (n/t) - "No / Thinking" - E.P. Grondine - 9/17/2004 2:26:13 PM
    - What Keith said and then some... (n/t) - et - 9/16/2004 8:19:52 PM
      - 2 cents to $5,000,000,000, or, I look forward to your apology - E.P. Gorndine - 9/16/2004 8:33:07 PM
        
        OK - I apologize to all humanity on behalf of your anomalist, conspiracist, nasty stupid waste of space (n/t) - Daniel L - 9/17/2004 12:08:33 PM
        
        nice try - but I've decided to no longer reply to attacks in kind - E.P. Grondine - 9/17/2004 2:23:25 PM
        
        I'M GLAD TO ELABORATE: - Daniel L - 9/18/2004 10:58:03 AM
        
        Good bye - E.P. Grondine - 9/18/2004 12:04:18 PM
- re: Columbia hatch found in Lufkin, Texas - it needs to be fingerprinted - Raoul - 9/16/2004 5:22:47 PM
  - could you please speak in your own words .. - Daniel - 9/17/2004 12:20:50 PM
- re: Columbia hatch found in Lufkin, Texas - it needs to be fingerprinted - Tom Brosz - 9/16/2004 5:16:37 PM
  - disintegration timeline and crew compartment integrity - E.P. Grondine - 9/16/2004 5:31:37 PM
    - Some evidence, please? - Skeptical - 9/17/2004 3:17:33 AM
      - Fair enough, Sceptical - - E.P. Groindine - 9/17/2004 3:31:53 PM
        
        Columbia - Separable Crew Cabin - StillSkeptical - 9/17/2004 7:21:58 PM
        
        Why don't you try over on the Aviation Week bulletin board? - E.P. Grondine - 9/17/2004 8:06:01 PM
        
        No such crew compartment separation system was ever installed - Keith Cowing - 9/18/2004 12:59:12 AM
        
        Fair enough, Scoop - E.P. Grondine - 9/18/2004 2:20:47 PM
        
        re: Fair enough, Scoop - Doug - 9/18/2004 7:21:56 PM
        
        Same deal, Doug - E.P. Grondine - 9/18/2004 7:50:29 PM
        
        I'll take it - dtb - 9/18/2004 8:04:11 PM
        
        Thanks - E.P. Grondine - 9/18/2004 9:17:16 PM
        
        Doug and Keith shouldn't have to sign off. - Mary Anne - 9/19/2004 12:29:30 AM
        
        re: Doug and Keith shouldn't have to sign off. - E.P. Grondine - 9/19/2004 2:12:44 PM
        
        Exactly - dtb - 9/19/2004 12:57:07 AM
        
        Not Exactly, Exactly - E.P. Grondine - 9/19/2004 2:44:42 PM
        
        Explosive bolts - Tom Brosz - 9/19/2004 12:48:43 AM
        
        Thanks Tom (n/t) - Daniel - 9/19/2004 6:50:49 PM
        
        re: What matters. - E.P. Grondine - 9/19/2004 2:29:17 PM
        
        re: What matters. - Doug - 9/19/2004 4:38:40 PM
        
        re: What matters. - E.P. Grondine - 9/19/2004 5:24:04 PM
        
        re: What matters. - Doug Ellison - 9/19/2004 7:44:02 PM
        
        Grinding axes - Mary Anne - 9/19/2004 1:34:36 AM
        
        totally inappropiate - Daniel L - 9/19/2004 7:25:14 PM
        
        re: totally inappropiate - E.P. Grondine - 9/20/2004 4:09:14 AM
        
        Yes. Why let him hoist himself by his own petard when you are so eager to do the work for him? (n/t) - Mary Anne - 9/20/2004 1:00:27 AM
        
        Wrong again! - Daniel - 9/20/2004 10:29:35 AM
        
        First you talked about anomalism, and now it's something else. - Mary Anne - 9/20/2004 11:05:17 AM
        
        our different approaches can work in tandem - Daniel - 9/20/2004 11:19:21 AM
        
        re: totally inappropiate - Doug Ellison - 9/19/2004 7:45:02 PM
        
        Agreed - dtb - 9/19/2004 9:03:59 PM
        
        re: Agreed - Doug Ellison - 9/19/2004 11:21:18 PM
        
        re: Grinding axes - E.P. Grondine - 9/19/2004 2:52:46 PM
    - What about the video that shows them seconds before the break up started. - REB - 9/16/2004 5:56:25 PM
      - re: Gloves and helmet - Raoul - 9/16/2004 6:54:53 PM
      - re:gloves - E.P. Grondine - 9/16/2004 6:28:37 PM
        
        re: re:gloves - Doug - 9/17/2004 9:50:26 AM
        
        re: re:gloves - E.P. Grondine - 9/18/2004 12:01:22 AM
        
        re: re:gloves - Doug - 9/18/2004 7:18:03 PM
    - What an idiot you are - Keith Cowing - 9/16/2004 5:43:40 PM
      - Why Hi there, Scoop - E.P. Grondine - 9/16/2004 5:54:34 PM

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