re: re:gloves

Space/Science » in reply to re: re:gloves

re: re:gloves

E.P. Grondine — 9/18/2004 12:01:22 AM (archived)

"We know what happened."

That's exactly the problem: No you don't.

For this, see the statement on crew compartment integrity issued by the CAIB.

Your assumption, unsupported by any evidence at all, and as a matter of fact in contradiction to the best engineering study of the evidence available, is that the shuttle disintegration was so fast that there was no time for crew to react.

While we'd all wish that the crews' deaths were without panic, I'm sorry, but bailout attempt or not, it simply did not happen that way. If it's any comfort, those deaths were probably instantaneous and painless.

You're right, as regards fingerprints, it is a lot of assumptions. The best thing I hope for is either recovery of Columbia's hatch, or the part of the shuttle side wall where it was attached. Then we'll have a good chance of knowing with some certainty if bailout was attempted or not.

I don't think you understand my purpose in pursuing the exact manner of Columbia's disintegration to the nth degree.

It is to ensure that future crews have the best possible chances if something should go disasterously wrong, either on ascent, or on descent.

They deserve it, so even if I want to, and it would certainly make my life a lot easier, I can not let this issue rest - system independent bailout indicators are needed on the shuttle hatches.

This is not that hard to do, nor is it that expensive.

ep

The whole thread (69 posts)

Columbia hatch found in Lufkin, Texas - it needs to be fingerprinted - E.P. Grondine - 9/16/2004 5:11:32 PM
- Do gloves leave fingerprints, EP? (n/t) - ebnelson - 9/20/2004 2:57:38 PM
  - covered in depth below (n/t) - E.P. Grondine - 9/20/2004 4:11:59 PM
- Hasn't ANYONE noticed?? - Daniel L - 9/19/2004 7:00:58 PM
  - Grondine is a hack... - R.L. - 9/20/2004 7:34:30 AM
  - I am sure that they have. - E.P. Grondine - 9/20/2004 4:32:38 AM
    - Nice try. - Tom Brosz - 9/20/2004 4:12:32 PM
      - He should air his views openly on CE or Offtopic instead of disguising them here in this way (n/t) - Daniel - 9/20/2004 4:51:32 PM
    - Wrong: I am NOT accusing you of that. Here is my 'declaration of principle' - - Daniel L - 9/20/2004 10:19:15 AM
      - Thank you for your apology - - E.P. Gorndine - 9/20/2004 4:09:25 PM
        
        EP, it's YOU who is focussed on Ramon - not me - Daniel - 9/20/2004 4:37:40 PM
        
        No, it is you - E.P. Grondine - 9/20/2004 5:47:16 PM
        
        There were four other fighter pilots in that cabin. You're not making your case. (n/t) - Tom Brosz - 9/20/2004 6:04:40 PM
        
        The case - E.P. Grondine - 9/21/2004 5:37:56 AM
  - (sorry et - I realize you, like Tom and Keith, DID notice) - Daniel - 9/19/2004 7:19:19 PM
- Reality check. - Tom Brosz - 9/17/2004 12:13:24 AM
- You urgently need to explain that fingerprinting comment. - et - 9/16/2004 5:27:38 PM
  - Done below - E.P. Grondine - 9/16/2004 5:34:42 PM
    - complete asinine garbage (n/t) - R.L. - 9/17/2004 5:56:48 AM
      - (n/t) - "No / Thinking" - E.P. Grondine - 9/17/2004 2:26:13 PM
    - What Keith said and then some... (n/t) - et - 9/16/2004 8:19:52 PM
      - 2 cents to $5,000,000,000, or, I look forward to your apology - E.P. Gorndine - 9/16/2004 8:33:07 PM
        
        OK - I apologize to all humanity on behalf of your anomalist, conspiracist, nasty stupid waste of space (n/t) - Daniel L - 9/17/2004 12:08:33 PM
        
        nice try - but I've decided to no longer reply to attacks in kind - E.P. Grondine - 9/17/2004 2:23:25 PM
        
        I'M GLAD TO ELABORATE: - Daniel L - 9/18/2004 10:58:03 AM
        
        Good bye - E.P. Grondine - 9/18/2004 12:04:18 PM
- re: Columbia hatch found in Lufkin, Texas - it needs to be fingerprinted - Raoul - 9/16/2004 5:22:47 PM
  - could you please speak in your own words .. - Daniel - 9/17/2004 12:20:50 PM
- re: Columbia hatch found in Lufkin, Texas - it needs to be fingerprinted - Tom Brosz - 9/16/2004 5:16:37 PM
  - disintegration timeline and crew compartment integrity - E.P. Grondine - 9/16/2004 5:31:37 PM
    - Some evidence, please? - Skeptical - 9/17/2004 3:17:33 AM
      - Fair enough, Sceptical - - E.P. Groindine - 9/17/2004 3:31:53 PM
        
        Columbia - Separable Crew Cabin - StillSkeptical - 9/17/2004 7:21:58 PM
        
        Why don't you try over on the Aviation Week bulletin board? - E.P. Grondine - 9/17/2004 8:06:01 PM
        
        No such crew compartment separation system was ever installed - Keith Cowing - 9/18/2004 12:59:12 AM
        
        Fair enough, Scoop - E.P. Grondine - 9/18/2004 2:20:47 PM
        
        re: Fair enough, Scoop - Doug - 9/18/2004 7:21:56 PM
        
        Same deal, Doug - E.P. Grondine - 9/18/2004 7:50:29 PM
        
        I'll take it - dtb - 9/18/2004 8:04:11 PM
        
        Thanks - E.P. Grondine - 9/18/2004 9:17:16 PM
        
        Doug and Keith shouldn't have to sign off. - Mary Anne - 9/19/2004 12:29:30 AM
        
        re: Doug and Keith shouldn't have to sign off. - E.P. Grondine - 9/19/2004 2:12:44 PM
        
        Exactly - dtb - 9/19/2004 12:57:07 AM
        
        Not Exactly, Exactly - E.P. Grondine - 9/19/2004 2:44:42 PM
        
        Explosive bolts - Tom Brosz - 9/19/2004 12:48:43 AM
        
        Thanks Tom (n/t) - Daniel - 9/19/2004 6:50:49 PM
        
        re: What matters. - E.P. Grondine - 9/19/2004 2:29:17 PM
        
        re: What matters. - Doug - 9/19/2004 4:38:40 PM
        
        re: What matters. - E.P. Grondine - 9/19/2004 5:24:04 PM
        
        re: What matters. - Doug Ellison - 9/19/2004 7:44:02 PM
        
        Grinding axes - Mary Anne - 9/19/2004 1:34:36 AM
        
        totally inappropiate - Daniel L - 9/19/2004 7:25:14 PM
        
        re: totally inappropiate - E.P. Grondine - 9/20/2004 4:09:14 AM
        
        Yes. Why let him hoist himself by his own petard when you are so eager to do the work for him? (n/t) - Mary Anne - 9/20/2004 1:00:27 AM
        
        Wrong again! - Daniel - 9/20/2004 10:29:35 AM
        
        First you talked about anomalism, and now it's something else. - Mary Anne - 9/20/2004 11:05:17 AM
        
        our different approaches can work in tandem - Daniel - 9/20/2004 11:19:21 AM
        
        re: totally inappropiate - Doug Ellison - 9/19/2004 7:45:02 PM
        
        Agreed - dtb - 9/19/2004 9:03:59 PM
        
        re: Agreed - Doug Ellison - 9/19/2004 11:21:18 PM
        
        re: Grinding axes - E.P. Grondine - 9/19/2004 2:52:46 PM
    - What about the video that shows them seconds before the break up started. - REB - 9/16/2004 5:56:25 PM
      - re: Gloves and helmet - Raoul - 9/16/2004 6:54:53 PM
      - re:gloves - E.P. Grondine - 9/16/2004 6:28:37 PM
        
        re: re:gloves - Doug - 9/17/2004 9:50:26 AM
        
        re: re:gloves - E.P. Grondine - 9/18/2004 12:01:22 AM
        
        re: re:gloves - Doug - 9/18/2004 7:18:03 PM
    - What an idiot you are - Keith Cowing - 9/16/2004 5:43:40 PM
      - Why Hi there, Scoop - E.P. Grondine - 9/16/2004 5:54:34 PM

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