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re: Any proof at all would be welcome
Tom Brosz — (archived)

In the 20th century, every single government that has exterminated millions of its own citizens, often in organized destruction, has called itself "socialist."

Theory, my ass. It is useful to construct a conclusion from actual behaviors and patterns of history, as opposed to how something "ought" to be.

At some point, bashing your own head with a hammer on the theory that maybe THIS time it won't hurt, has to be considered counterproductive, and anyone nowadays who proposed running a country on Marxist/collectivist principles should be run out of town covered with tar and feathers.

Don't argue with me. Take it up with an immigrant from Eastern Europe, Cuba, or Southeast Asia.

If you still want to talk about theory, the basic division is that between individualism and collectivism. The primary value of the individual human being is at the root of all proper societies, and the view of humans as simply "masses" or a collective is at the root of most human atrocities.

Capitalism is, ideally, an outgrowth of individual rights, not a primary. In real life, obviously, theory matters a lot less than what actually happens, and the idea of "property rights" back in an era of monarchies and aristocratic holdings is less than pure.

But if you look at the examples of slavery and genocide of Native Americans, are you looking at a philosophy of individual rights, or the idea that human beings can be considered dispensable cogs for a greater cause?

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