"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - attributed to Churchill – Flame

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"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - attributed to Churchill

TB — 4/21/2009 10:13:24 PM (archived)

Lives were saved.

The "interrogations didn't work anyway" meme is a lie. This does not change the moral controversy, but it's less of a slam-dunk than some might pretend.

The whole thread (103 posts)

The elephant in the living room. - Bowser - 4/20/2009 11:42:19 PM
- I'll side with TB on this one - E.P. - 4/23/2009 10:46:40 PM
  - re: I'll side with TB on this one - Lindy - 4/25/2009 3:46:22 PM
    - re: I'll side with TB on this one - E.P. - 5/1/2009 9:37:09 PM
- If Everbody's talking about it, then it cannot be 'The elephant in the living room.' - S - 4/22/2009 6:29:45 PM
  - My bad...'didn't scroll down far enough... - S - 4/22/2009 7:07:51 PM
    - re: My bad...'didn't scroll down far enough... - TB - 4/22/2009 8:33:56 PM
      - "the moral issue is a lot more complicated so it's easier for some people to pretend they never work. " - Lindy - 4/23/2009 12:28:12 AM
      - Missing sources - TB - 4/22/2009 8:43:10 PM
  - Or, as Pynchon put it... - S - 4/22/2009 6:53:59 PM
    - Here's one of the right questions... - Lindy - 4/23/2009 12:38:41 AM
      - Try and focus. - TB - 4/23/2009 3:51:55 AM
- re: The elephant in the living room. - Marcia - 4/21/2009 9:52:51 PM
- You know... - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/21/2009 7:17:16 PM
  - PS Re: Animal Love (Pet owners do NOT read - oops that excludes the entire Zone!) - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/22/2009 9:14:39 PM
    - Life 101...seriously - Jody - 4/23/2009 1:33:32 PM
      - re: Life 101...seriously - Marcia - 4/25/2009 10:15:01 PM
    - "The more our society decays the more it turns to pets for pseudo unconditional love and affirmation." - Lindy - 4/23/2009 12:40:34 AM
      - Conflicting messages. - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/23/2009 6:23:48 AM
        
        It is aways about excess - FrankC - 4/23/2009 6:14:43 PM
        
        You got it. Balance ;-) (n/t) - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/24/2009 12:55:18 AM
        
        If it truly is about balance Mr. Spock... - Jody - 4/24/2009 1:58:01 PM
        
        I suggest a compromise - Jody - 4/23/2009 1:24:12 PM
        
        Made of hemp? - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/24/2009 12:58:58 AM
        
        How would that even *work*? (n/t) - TB - 4/23/2009 4:46:27 PM
        
        Well, first you get a rope... - Eri - 4/23/2009 5:20:51 PM
        
        *giggle* (n/t) - Jody - 4/23/2009 10:20:30 PM
    - I love my puppy - FrankC - 4/23/2009 12:19:21 AM
      - He's precious! (n/t) - Eri - 4/23/2009 2:33:53 AM
      - Awwww...FrankC...he is adorable!!! - Jody - 4/23/2009 12:48:53 AM
    - This is so pathetic - Robert - 4/22/2009 11:45:45 PM
      - Well said. For some, dogs, cats and people are merely objects. - Bowser - 4/24/2009 4:35:29 AM
        
        I've talked to veterinarians... - TB - 4/25/2009 5:11:56 AM
        
        bonding outside the species - Robert - 4/24/2009 5:36:16 AM
        
        I certainly understand. - Eri - 4/25/2009 9:09:14 PM
        
        I refrain from reading any more posts on this subject. - Jody - 4/24/2009 2:22:57 PM
        
        Lindy, Jody, Eri...somebody...PLEASE... - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/24/2009 7:02:16 AM
        
        Keep digging that hole - Robert - 4/24/2009 4:19:36 PM
        
        It would be nice... - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/24/2009 9:18:40 PM
        
        Sorry Tech1 but it's obvious that your envious of the affection some animals command. (n/t) - RobVG - 4/26/2009 10:45:10 PM
        
        ;-) (n/t) - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/26/2009 11:33:55 PM
        
        Give it up Tech1 - Lindy - 4/26/2009 5:53:44 AM
        
        I miscalculated. - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/26/2009 8:56:48 AM
        
        No shit! - Eri - 4/26/2009 6:23:51 PM
        
        On the other hand... - TB - 4/26/2009 6:02:44 PM
        
        "I am often careless with human emotions" - Lindy - 4/26/2009 3:26:38 PM
        
        Yes you did... - Jody - 4/26/2009 1:48:08 PM
        
        Chart clarified - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/26/2009 9:23:29 AM
        
        Journey to the center of the Earth - Robert - 4/24/2009 10:03:04 PM
    - SDAI needs to go to the vet to be fixed. - Eri - 4/22/2009 10:09:11 PM
      - Now now...no need for that Eri - Jody - 4/22/2009 11:09:19 PM
        
        I love you too Jody. ;-) (n/t) - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/23/2009 4:51:12 AM
        
        Heh.... - Jody - 4/23/2009 10:21:41 PM
        
        I'm glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read that! I'd have needeed a new keyboard. (n/t) - Eri - 4/23/2009 2:36:18 AM
  - You're one sick bastard (n/t) - Eri - 4/22/2009 3:55:07 PM
  - I am sorry SDAI said that to you Bowser. (n/t) - Jody - 4/22/2009 2:22:11 PM
    - As a woman.... - Lindy - 4/22/2009 5:13:38 PM
      - SDAI will never apologize. He's too sure of his own superiority. - Eri - 4/22/2009 7:04:17 PM
    - No harm, no foul. I don't read him. (n/t) - Bowser - 4/22/2009 2:42:29 PM
  - re: You know... - FrankC - 4/21/2009 8:48:19 PM
    - And what's more... - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/21/2009 10:58:56 PM
  - You should have left the dog out of it. (n/t) - TB - 4/21/2009 8:17:20 PM
    - Agreed - REB - 4/22/2009 1:18:40 PM
      - Me, too. - Jody - 4/22/2009 2:20:38 PM
        
        3 things you don't mess with in Texas... - REB - 4/22/2009 2:35:44 PM
        
        You BETTER put the wife first! - Eri - 4/22/2009 3:56:44 PM
        
        But in Texas... - TB - 4/22/2009 8:12:54 PM
        
        True but she has to go to the head of the line. (n/t) - Eri - 4/22/2009 10:10:04 PM
    - Nah. - SDAi-Tech1 - 4/21/2009 11:02:37 PM
- More like a big, smelly fish - S - 4/21/2009 5:54:20 PM
- Cheney says torture's no big deal - we learned a few things! - z - 4/21/2009 4:24:33 PM
  - Well, at least one - S - 4/21/2009 5:45:28 PM
- I guess there really was an Axis of Evil after all. - ER - 4/21/2009 10:36:45 AM
- More of a red herring than an elephant. - TB - 4/21/2009 6:43:36 AM
  - "- - - live with the burden of knowing that we have plumbed the shallows of their credibility, honesty and integrity." (n/t) - Bowser - 4/21/2009 6:52:27 PM
  - Distraction or not....it's important to our Zoners Tom... (n/t) - Jody - 4/21/2009 3:13:48 PM
    - My turn... - Jody - 4/21/2009 9:17:17 PM
      - I don't have a porch. Sniff. (n/t) - Eri - 4/22/2009 3:25:04 AM
        
        Stoop? :) (n/t) - Jody - 4/22/2009 6:14:21 PM
        
        re: Stoop? :) - Eri - 4/22/2009 7:05:16 PM
        
        To the moon Alice!!!;) (n/t) - Jody - 4/22/2009 7:08:52 PM
        
        Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars... (n/t) - Eri - 4/22/2009 10:11:13 PM
      - re: My turn... - FrankC - 4/21/2009 10:16:12 PM
      - "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - attributed to Churchill - TB - 4/21/2009 10:13:24 PM
        
        Mark Thiessen was Bush's speechwriter - Lindy - 4/22/2009 12:23:46 AM
        
        More on lives saved - TB - 4/21/2009 11:57:54 PM
        
        Still more - TB - 4/22/2009 3:37:14 AM
        
        Why are you knocking yourself out? - SDAI-Tech1 - 4/22/2009 5:45:54 AM
        
        re: Why are you knocking yourself out? - TB - 4/22/2009 5:51:42 AM
        
        The hard choice - TB - 4/22/2009 12:07:37 AM
        
        As has been demonstrated, the credibility of your sources is highly questionable. - Bowser - 4/22/2009 12:05:16 AM
        
        Evasive action - TB - 4/22/2009 12:09:04 AM
        
        And not to put too fine a point on it... - TB - 4/22/2009 12:14:16 AM
        
        The US tortured and Bush lied. And you deny it. Except to say it worked. - Bowser - 4/22/2009 2:31:58 AM
        
        I assume others got the point. (n/t) - TB - 4/22/2009 3:29:45 AM
        
        Sadly, TB, I think everyone got exactly that point. (n/t) - Bowser - 4/22/2009 4:08:59 AM
        
        The only point I have gleaned from this thread was that this seems to be personal with you Bowser. - Jody - 4/22/2009 1:55:24 PM
        
        Wasn't rhetorical, wasn't directed at TB alone. - Bowser - 4/22/2009 5:29:20 PM
        
        Well.... - Jody - 4/23/2009 2:14:12 AM
  - re: More of a red herring than an elephant. (you should be ashamed of yourself Tom) - Lindy - 4/21/2009 2:37:44 PM
  - It's not Bush Derangement, - ER - 4/21/2009 10:22:55 AM
    - re: Bush Derangement - TB - 4/21/2009 5:56:27 PM
      - "There was a reason this release happened now" - Lindy - 4/21/2009 11:54:28 PM

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