"It is ludicrous to assume that our government can broadcast all the intelligence they are using, and still operate effectively, so at bottom we are left with trusting Bush and his administration, or not."

No, but it is MASSIVELY within our self interest to lay a reasoned and convincing case for war in Iraq. My basic view at this point is that if they can, and have not, then they are massive boobs [ahem...] who are shredding the last 50 years of america building up a global power base.

If they don't have reason, then they are boobs. So, there we have it.... A convincing pair of boobs [hmmm...]

"It is ludicrous to assume that our government can broadcast all the intelligence they are using, and still operate effectively, so at bottom we are left with trusting Bush and his administration, or not."

1) Its ludicrous to believe that our government would not lay out enough intelligence to lay bare the perniciousness of our enemies and rally the world to our side...IF SUCH EXISTS!!!

Remember the Cuban Missile crises? We exposed..COMPLETELY the capabilities of our best equipment (U2 optics and other sources) to show the soviets as liars. It was such a massive and public PR victory that some historians say that that moment determined who would go on to win the cold war. It was worth it.

2) This is really.... unreal. I, a liberal, am making the claim that we should NOT trust the government blindly and in the absence of reason. While you, a oaken conservative (and possibly at least objectivist leaning) republican are claiming we should. Does this strike you as eerie Tom?

"Obviously, we aren't going to know the whole story until after the fact"

Under my set of claims, I doubt that will obtain. I grant WMD and saddam being a jackal, and I doubt troops on the ground are going to ever find the manual that reads "or immediate plan to use WMD against america and her allies"

Think about it this way. If I walk into a house and start shooting people dead, search theri rooms and THEN find out they were planning a mass-murder, that does not justify my act. Even if I '*felt* in my heart' they were, or maybe they had been previously convicted of such crimes. What matters here is fact beforehand, and even more so- getting those facts out to the world so that we *look* like the knights in shining armour, and not merderous butchers. Its that event that scares me more for the future of america than any other.

Davin