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Flame » in reply to re: eternal vigilance...

liberty=convenience?

Robert — 12/5/2006 10:46:27 PM (archived)

I didn't quote those quotes to argue by authority, I presented those quotes as the intellectual roots of something that I believe quite strongly in. Not everyone cynically wields rhetoric to score points; some of us actually believe in timeless principles such as this.

I'm sure I don't need to belabor the shallowness of measuring freedom in terms of convenience. In Mussolini's Italy the train service was quite convenient because the trains ran on time, but funny, Fascist Italy is rarely held up as a shining example of liberty and freedom for all. I mean, Tom, Ben Franklin decried people who'd give up liberty for security, but giving up liberty just because it's not an inconvenience? I think you must define such concepts as liberty very differently than I do, or at least value it far less than I do.

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The whole thread (69 posts)

Ideology and Perception - ER - 11/30/2006 9:22:59 PM
- Wish I was half the philosopher - azstrummer - 12/1/2006 1:17:20 AM
  - re: Wish I was half the philosopher - ER - 12/1/2006 1:51:56 AM
    - re: Wish I was half the philosopher - gbaikie - 12/12/2006 11:14:21 AM
    - Reaching for the gun - azstrummer - 12/1/2006 3:11:18 AM
      - Did you even listen to yourself? - Lee - 12/1/2006 5:35:38 AM
        
        Oh, did that bother you? - azstrummer - 12/1/2006 10:23:19 PM
        
        Imaginary violations - TB - 12/2/2006 7:27:53 AM
        
        pulling the emergency brake - Robert - 12/3/2006 2:34:33 AM
        
        re: pulling the emergency brake - TB - 12/3/2006 6:19:00 AM
        
        eternal vigilance... - Robert - 12/3/2006 6:10:36 PM
        
        re: eternal vigilance... - TB - 12/5/2006 12:56:41 AM
        
        liberty=convenience? - Robert - 12/5/2006 10:46:27 PM
        
        re: liberty - TB - 12/5/2006 11:02:35 PM
        
        let... - Robert - 12/6/2006 2:51:02 AM
        
        "Authoritarianism" - TB - 12/6/2006 7:25:22 PM
        
        Willful blindness - Robert - 12/6/2006 7:57:30 PM
        
        re: Willful blindness - TB - 12/7/2006 4:29:20 AM
        
        still reframing - Robert - 12/7/2006 5:54:08 PM
        
        Do you even know who Altemeyer is? - TB - 12/7/2006 10:11:52 PM
        
        Addendum - TB - 12/6/2006 7:31:40 PM
        
        Consulting the Oracle at Google - Robert - 12/3/2006 2:16:20 AM
        
        do only americans couny? (n/t) - i Cognito - 12/2/2006 8:54:56 PM
        
        re: Imaginary violations - azstrummer - 12/2/2006 7:04:21 PM
        
        Oh, NOW we get to play Alternate Universe? - TB - 12/2/2006 11:15:54 PM
        
        How convenient - azstrummer - 12/3/2006 4:17:01 AM
        
        re: How convenient - TB - 12/3/2006 6:24:29 AM
        
        Gore - azstrummer - 12/3/2006 5:02:58 PM
        
        Still didn't answer the question. - Lee - 12/2/2006 3:58:23 AM
        
        What are you talking about? - RobVG - 12/2/2006 3:56:37 AM
        
        Another link - azstrummer - 12/2/2006 5:32:30 AM
        
        Text - RobVG - 12/2/2006 6:31:25 AM
        
        First they came for the aliens... - Mary Anne - 12/3/2006 5:00:03 PM
        
        re: First they came for the aliens... - TB - 12/5/2006 1:08:44 AM
        
        Abridgement of legal rights is very real. - Mary Anne - 12/7/2006 2:00:01 AM
        
        You want somebody coming for someone in the night? - TB - 12/5/2006 5:28:51 AM
        
        Oh, yes, the Taliban. - Mary Anne - 12/7/2006 2:05:23 AM
        
        The point... - TB - 12/7/2006 11:03:16 PM
        
        The ones we control are ourselves. - Mary Anne - 12/7/2006 11:18:32 PM
        
        Hmmm, and just maybe... - R.L. - 12/5/2006 10:09:37 PM
        
        Content warning? That was pretty harsh. - SDAI-Tech1 - 12/5/2006 8:34:52 AM
        
        "He looks happy, doesn't he?" - TB - 12/5/2006 11:10:07 PM
        
        Try to imagine an enslaved father asking for his child to be returned to slavery. - Mary Anne - 12/7/2006 2:30:54 AM
        
        The Museum of the Battle of Ideas - TB - 12/7/2006 4:40:50 AM
        
        For me, it was about the law. - Mary Anne - 12/7/2006 1:23:27 PM
        
        Dredd Scott was also "the law." - TB - 12/7/2006 10:29:37 PM
        
        and in both of those cases... - azstrummer - 12/8/2006 12:16:03 AM
        
        re: cases - TB - 12/8/2006 1:58:18 AM
        
        Probably more like 2 out of 10 don't understand it. - Mary Anne - 12/8/2006 1:52:41 PM
        
        Rosa Parks went to jail. - Mary Anne - 12/7/2006 11:07:16 PM
        
        re: Rosa Parks went to jail. (n/t) - blanca - 12/11/2006 4:11:32 PM
        
        re: Rosa Parks went to jail. (n/t) - blanca - 12/11/2006 4:11:28 PM
        
        When they come for my guns... - RobVG - 12/3/2006 6:13:40 PM
        
        May not apply to you but does to me....... (n/t) - tony - 12/2/2006 7:07:48 AM
        
        ;-) Buh Buh. Goo Buh. Buh Buh Tones. (n/t) - SDAI-Tech1 - 12/4/2006 11:35:13 AM
        
        Between you and Rob's initimation that I'm lower than one his guns..... - Tony - 12/4/2006 8:00:47 PM
        
        You know what they (well I) say about signal feedback...;-) (n/t) - SDAI-Tech1 - 12/5/2006 8:46:01 AM
        
        Not exactly sure what to think Tony. - RobVG - 12/5/2006 1:47:43 AM
        
        Thanks (n/t) - RobVG - 12/2/2006 5:50:14 AM
        
        re: What are you talking about? - azstrummer - 12/2/2006 5:30:19 AM
        
        Perhaps you'd prefer he just be set ablaze. - ER - 12/1/2006 12:39:05 PM
        
        The only people I see on fire.. - Lee - 12/1/2006 6:37:57 PM
- re: Conversation - Raoul - 11/30/2006 10:36:59 PM
  - Saving Face on Mars - ER - 12/1/2006 1:16:47 AM
    - re: Thinking ahead - Raoul - 12/1/2006 6:34:50 AM
      - Truly Amazing How Some Can't Think Ahead - ID - 12/2/2006 2:10:50 AM
        
        re: Ah, yes,a good ID! - Raoull - 12/2/2006 5:40:35 PM
        
        re: Ah, yes,a good ID! - M.A.E. - 12/12/2006 6:36:43 AM
- re: I agree (n/t) - Johannes - 11/30/2006 10:10:10 PM

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