"As yet, while I have seen plenty of evidence over the past 500,000 year record that CO2 and temperature are related, nobody has yet convinced me which is cause and which is effect."

I think the failure to convince on this issue rests mainly with you. Every climate model has demonstrated that CO2 traps heat- in fact that knowledge was the very genesis of the term 'greenhous effect'. This is an old, highly tested hypothesis. If you doubt it, its your role to disprove it. If you can't disprove it, then ... fill in the blank.

Every climate researcher that i'm familiar with, including the much despised James Lovelock, who is now an advocate of Nuclear energy has never had an 'anti technological society' viewpoint- in fact quite the opposite.

If you want to talk about myths and political agendas in climate, it is absurd not to investigate the die-hard denier crowd. In that arena, many if not most of those researchers that I am aware of have openly expressed a political or philosophical (in the sense of values) agenda.

Beyond that, last I looked into it, you could actually see a temporal gap between CO2 spikes and warming, albeit very small, where the CO2 increase preceeded the warming.

The old stand-by of vulcanism as the source of CO2 does not fly- the Isotope data is definitive and entirely clear. Vulcanism does not play a role in the nascent spike in atmospheric CO2.

As with other aspects of the so-called 'right wing agenda', we have another situation where those who have been consistently wrong lecturing those who have been consistently right about why their additudes are morally incorrect. This shift in the argument... this re-framing of the issues... rests primarily in the fact that the empirical facts are clear and decisive.

This is not about a global technological industrial society- the management and persitence of such a society is not contingent upon the release of greenhouse gases. IE- the run-away release of greenhouse gas is not a necessary condition of a global technological industrial society. Just as there is vast amounts of money to be made in the traditional technologies that have CO2 gas as a byproduct, there is also a vast amount of money to be made in the technologies that do not produce such pollutants.

If anything, the outright insistance of the anti-environmental groups that alteration of our means of electricity generation and transport is anithetical to progress belies a fundamental philosophical disconnect with the tenents of a technologically advaned society- namely that the means of solving any problem rests in the intellect of man, and in the engine of progress and enterpirse.

Yeti