Jody, I always want to talk but that's not saying there weren't elements of a rant that began it all. That's kinda the idea of the Flame board although I was actually pretty mellow since, instead of attacking directly some other member of this board, my target was that loony website.

I'm not sure you understand what it's like being an atheist surrounded by people that adhere to a belief that your eternal soul is going to rot in hell and that based on that, somehow or other you're less moral or ethical because you're not a member of their club.

That club is allowed to knock on your door handing out pamphlets, its speakers take over commencement ceremonies quoting inane Bible verses, as you traverse though TV channels you're barraged with used-car salesmen style preachers pretending to heal the sick and raking in insane amounts of money. Nearly every corner has some huge church on it immune from any tax burden the other businesses around it have to absorb. Half the folks you pass by wear some form of cross around their neck. State boards of education actually rule that creationism has a place in public school classrooms. Until you walk a day in the shoes of a non-believer Jody you have no clue as to how pervasive the message in this nation is.

So you engage believers in dialogue and you don't get fair and honest debate. You get circular logic thrown in your face with justification coming from Bible verses that have been used for all manners of evil over the years. The people you talk with know almost nothing of church history. Most I talk to have no clue about world history in general. When you bring up the clear gaps in logic it's all brushed off not by actual facts to support it but instead by statements like "We can never know God.", "if you only have faith, this will be made clear.", "It says in PeeWee Verse 15, chapter 69 that the lamb of your brother is but a prune.....".

For years I just stayed in the shadows knowing the different philosophy my brain insisted I adhere to would make me a pariah among the overwhelming percentage of Christians within my friends, family, coworkers, etc. I learned quickly as have my sons that an admission of a lack of faith would bring bullying and isolation.

Now in fairness, there were many believers and people considering themselves "spiritual" that could care less what others around them believed or didn't believe. I wish I could say it was the majority. However, the common thread even among them was their lack of outrage when their more hardcore brethren took it too far. It was my first glimpse of the huge power of human behavior where people longed so much to be defined by a group that they were willing to look the other way even when basic human ethics were being torn apart because they identified in some way with the perpetrator.

This discussion showed that phenomena in spades. I went after an absurd site and was met with immediate defensive backlash as if I were attacking anyone of faith. I knew nobody here felt that strongly about their faith that they would go along with that bozo's definition of prayer so one would normally think that even with my heightened rhetoric, the targeting was narrowly defined. Yet a few of you felt it was personal.

I need to get to work so I'll finish these thoughts later.

Art