Thanks, Davin. I confess that it can be irritating to know that deference is given on account of gender rather than common humanity, but if it sets a standard that can be expanded to include everybody who abides by it, then it's OK with me. We could all benefit from being treated courteously, even when we make mistakes or are being stubborn.

I really know when I'm holding my own and when I'm coasting. That knowledge is enough for me.

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A Tale of Two Female Engineers: A Parable of Gender in the Workplace (based on true events at a local industrial plant)

One was a Serious Feminist, and the other was a Hale Fellow Well Met. Both were well-qualified, hard working and dependable. Both were also, incidentally, pretty women, and married.

The SF would not put up with one joke that even looked like it pretended to be blue, and was in general without humor when it came to any gender-related issue. The guys on shift called her a bitch, but not to her face. She pretty much got whatever she asked for, including promotions.

The HFWM laughed along with the jokes, and roled with the punches on gender issues at work. The guys on shift liked her and considered her a pal, to her face and when she wasn't there. She suffered more stress-related ailments, was put on more undesirable duties, and was not promoted with the promptness that SF was.

Guess which one has since left. Guess which one was honored by a local professional women's organization.

Being a good sport with the guys is a two-edged sword. Here, it doesn't matter as much, because this is casual and non-essential, though pleasureable in an occasionally masochistic kind of way. Out in real life, though, it can be hazardous to a woman's health and to her professional standing. It appears to me sometimes that a woman in a work environment dominated by men can either be widely liked or widely respected, but it's very hard to be both. Those of us with daughters, and those of you with girlfriends and wives out in the working world, would do well to think about this once in a while. We can't change the world, but we can change the way we think about things. If we have to. I guess.

Ultimately, IMHO, the person in question (Male, female, white, not-white, whatever) is the final arbiter of how they should be addressed. Some folks have a high tolerance for others behavior and a thick skin, others don't. But in my two cents, if anyone treats anyone else differently because of gender (outside of those few cases where gender really does lead to real differences), or associates gender with intellect, then that person is at least leaving the door open for insult to be taken.

We just can't get away from some things, Davin. Even if we become colorblind as a species, we will never ever be gender-blind.

Desk Set is one of my favorite movies, and has been since I was a little girl. Katherine Hepburn stars as Bunny Watson, a research librarian :) , and Spencer Tracey [be still my heart] as Richard Sumner, an engineer who designs computers. In Richard's first meeting with Bunny, as he interviews her to discover how she approaches a problem, one of the questions he asks is what she first notices about a person. Bunny replies without hesitation, "Whether that person is male or female." This answer surprises Richard, but it's the surprise of the obvious answer that goes so deep to the heart of identity that we almost never think about it.

To deny identifying people by gender is to swim against the tide of biology, never a smart thing. To identify people that way openly and to treat them as individuals anyway is not only honest, it's hard, but it's worthwhile.