Fossil fuel economics are bogus

Space/Science » in reply to Money has better uses.

Fossil fuel economics are bogus

Gary — 5/15/2005 3:59:43 PM (archived)

The main problem with fossil fuels is the economics are bogus. The price of petroleum is set by the cost of discovering the resource, pumping it out of the ground, transportation costs from the MIddle East, the cost of refining it and various taxes. There is no "replacement cost" attached to petroleum, i.e. the cost of making artificial petroleum from scratch using nuclear energy. If replacement cost was factored in then petroleum would probably cost 10 to 100 times more than it does and no one would be burning it in automobiles. Of course we don't worry about replacement cost because that's a cost to be paid for by our grandchildren. Environmental costs often work that way. The guy building a dam on a river may make 10 million dollars from the electricity but the people down stream may lose 50 million dollars because the river water becomes too salty for agriculture or their fishing industry goes away because fish can't spawn upriver.

Gary

The whole thread (63 posts)

Another vote for nuclear power - Tom Brosz - 5/13/2005 3:52:35 AM
- And some more votes... - Tom Brosz - 5/14/2005 9:17:11 PM
  - so much for the stereotyping here at HZ (n/t) - pwokenyaw - 5/15/2005 3:23:05 AM
- Forget Yucca Mountain: use the former nuke test sites for radioactive waste storage! - Jacob Samorodin - 5/14/2005 3:17:59 PM
- re: advanatge nuclear power - dwh - 5/13/2005 2:54:02 PM
  - Sierra Club - Gary - 5/13/2005 3:41:15 PM
    - I'm not convinced that nuclear fusion will reduce the amount of radioactive waste produced versus conventional fission powerplants - SDF - 5/14/2005 3:04:58 PM
      - Even a deuterium-tritium fusion reaction produces much less radioactive material than fission - Gary - 5/14/2005 4:21:14 PM
        
        Actually the fusion reactor chamber remains dangerously radiactive for 100 years - SDF - 5/15/2005 1:00:35 PM
        
        Don't be stupid... - Adam - 5/15/2005 2:15:42 PM
        
        I'm not being stupid, short-lived vs. long-lived isotopes is a pointless arguement when they are gradually accumulating in larger and larger amounts. (n/t) - SDF - 5/15/2005 3:36:29 PM
      - add: when the oil runs out, nuclear power won't keep your car running - SDF - 5/14/2005 3:19:25 PM
        
        Nuclear power can run your car - SDG - 5/14/2005 4:15:28 PM
        
        Short answer: if you have enough electrical power, you can do pretty much anything. - Tom Brosz - 5/14/2005 6:41:22 PM
        
        Obvious question: How expensive is an electric car now? - SDF - 5/15/2005 3:57:32 PM
        
        Pure electric cars are not economical - Gary - 5/15/2005 4:05:42 PM
        
        Wait for it. - Tom Brosz - 5/15/2005 8:31:39 PM
        
        200 km per charge... - Adam - 5/15/2005 10:06:36 PM
        
        Your warranty - Tom Brosz - 5/16/2005 5:13:27 AM
        
        You nailed it - Gary - 5/16/2005 5:50:06 AM
        
        Hydrocarbons have better uses - Gary - 5/14/2005 11:17:13 PM
        
        Money has better uses. - SDF - 5/15/2005 1:03:52 PM
        
        re: Money has better uses. - SDG - 5/16/2005 2:54:49 PM
        
        People will move and lifestyles will change if oil runs out. - Scott Evil - 5/16/2005 4:11:45 PM
        
        Californian metropolitan areas assume cheap gasoline - Gary - 5/17/2005 3:58:35 PM
        
        Why doesn't some enterprising individual buy up the empty office space - Scott Evil - 5/18/2005 2:09:49 PM
        
        Fossil fuel economics are bogus - Gary - 5/15/2005 3:59:43 PM
        
        So when the new oil runs out.... reminiscent of a pyramid scheme! lol (n/t) - SDF - 5/16/2005 12:35:07 PM
        
        Isn't that what Kyoto Accord was about? Assigning a monetary value to GHG emissions so they could be accounted as an internal business expense? - SDF - 5/16/2005 12:49:59 PM
        
        I hear CO2 credits are going for about $20 a ton in Europe. (n/t) - Tom Brosz - 5/17/2005 4:12:39 AM
    - I had a similair voew toward Greenpeace at one time. - Scott Evil - 5/13/2005 8:32:47 PM
- We must have it... - Scott Evil - 5/13/2005 2:48:43 PM
- I'm not convinced that carbon emissions will lead to global warming - SDF - 5/13/2005 5:24:04 AM
  - Nuclear will still be a good idea, global warming or not. - Tom Brosz - 5/13/2005 6:43:55 AM
    - I'm not convinced that nuclear is a good idea - SDF - 5/13/2005 7:18:46 AM
      - Bio-fuels need to be pushed but the greens hate them because they still emit CO2 - Scott Evil - 5/13/2005 3:00:53 PM
        
        re: Bio-fuels need to be pushed but the greens hate them because they still emit CO2 - Ehhhhhhh - 6/2/2005 3:36:26 PM
        
        Throw away your technology and return to nature! - ljk - 5/13/2005 4:21:59 PM
        
        re: population culling....... - dwh - 5/13/2005 4:19:04 PM
        
        How practical is dumping nuke waste into the Sun? - ljk - 5/13/2005 5:04:10 PM
        
        That's actually a trick question - Gary - 5/14/2005 4:16:22 AM
        
        Bury the waste on the Moon or some other planetary body. - Lee - 5/14/2005 2:40:15 AM
        
        Good Lord, didn't you see Space: 1999?! - LJK - 5/14/2005 10:20:49 PM
        
        If it'll give us eagles, I say we go for it. - Lee - 5/15/2005 2:08:08 AM
        
        Negative factors include... - Larry J - 5/13/2005 6:37:11 PM
        
        You're all working too hard on this. - Tom Brosz - 5/14/2005 5:03:12 AM
        
        It's one job the U.N. could do. - Lee - 5/14/2005 5:31:22 AM
        
        Most sensible environmentalists know the difference. - Tom Brosz - 5/13/2005 3:53:06 PM
        
        Teasing out the oversimplification - pwokenyaw - 5/13/2005 6:17:31 PM
        
        Nuclear subsidy - Gary - 5/14/2005 4:14:38 PM
        
        Gotta disagree about V-1s verses V-2s - Larry J - 5/15/2005 2:32:50 AM
        
        Saturating British defense - Gary - 5/15/2005 4:27:09 PM
        
        I don't know - the British had a lot of anti-aircraft guns on the coasts... - Larry J - 5/16/2005 6:30:39 PM
        
        state of technology determined by government subsidies - pwokenyaw - 5/15/2005 1:23:13 AM
        
        Conservation is important, but it doesn't answer the mail - Larry J - 5/13/2005 6:47:12 PM
        
        can the build windmills that aren't so ugly? - Scott Evil - 5/13/2005 8:25:12 PM
        
        re: windmills?? - dwh - 5/13/2005 8:47:55 PM
        
        re: windmills?? - pwokenyaw - 5/13/2005 10:10:58 PM
        
        Why don't they put more blades and then add a variable transmission so that the blades spin slower, while producing more electricity? - Scott Evil - 5/16/2005 3:33:24 PM
        
        More blades doesn't necessarily mean more energy... - Larry J - 5/17/2005 1:56:43 PM
        
        re: windmills?? Siting issues - p - 5/14/2005 3:49:04 PM
        
        re: windmills?? Siting issues....you bet - dwh - 5/16/2005 7:58:50 PM
        
        Ditto for photovoltaic cells. (n/t) - Scott Evil - 5/13/2005 8:25:56 PM

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