And by the way, Jefferson wasn't all that consistent either.

Current Events » in reply to re: Thomas Jefferson

And by the way, Jefferson wasn't all that consistent either.

Tom Brosz — 1/12/2004 2:25:48 AM (archived)

"Although we have no right to intermeddle with the form of government of other nations, yet it is lawful to wish to see no emperors nor kings in our hemisphere." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1823.

"Countries... have a right to be free, and we a right to aid them, as a strong man has a right to assist a weak one assailed by a robber or murderer." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1816. ME 14:432

"I do not indeed wish to see any nation have a form of government forced on them; but if it is to be done, I should rejoice at its being a free one." --Thomas Jefferson to Peregrine Fitzhugh, 1798. ME 10:4

The whole thread (78 posts)

Think Tank: U.S. Overstated Iraqi Threat - Donald - 1/9/2004 3:31:14 AM
- re: U.S. Overstated Iraqi Threat - Tom Brosz - 1/9/2004 7:57:34 PM
  - Clinton and Iraq - S - 1/9/2004 8:49:11 PM
    - Does that 'sacred right' trump our national safety? - ebnelson - 1/13/2004 1:47:29 PM
      - It certainly doesn't threaten it - S - 1/13/2004 9:43:31 PM
        
        Ah. Mossad again. - Tom Brosz - 1/14/2004 5:02:40 AM
    - Hello 911 - Mark Eby - 1/10/2004 4:47:07 AM
      - re: Hello 911 - Tom Brosz - 1/10/2004 9:13:41 PM
        
        As Guilty As Davin Tom - Mark Eby - 1/11/2004 9:45:35 PM
      - Great jingoistic propaganda! - Davin L. - 1/10/2004 6:29:19 PM
        
        YGTBK - ebnelson - 1/13/2004 1:48:43 PM
    - P.S. - Tom Brosz - 1/9/2004 9:11:28 PM
    - "Self-determination?" Are you serious?? - Tom Brosz - 1/9/2004 9:04:45 PM
      - re: And are you serious? - Raoul - 1/9/2004 9:53:18 PM
        
        You wrote: "International law doesn't care what's going on inside a country, as long as it doesn't interfere with other countries." My anwswer: Then International Law in its current form is immoral a… - David F Mayer - 1/11/2004 3:26:12 PM
        
        So you don't believe in national sovereignty? - Mary Anne - 1/11/2004 5:49:44 PM
        
        Yes, I really like being lectured on the cruelty of capital punishment by such gentle countries as Germany, which has always treated all minorities with respect. (n/t) - David F Mayer - 1/11/2004 5:56:30 PM
        
        re: Send some time with them, it helps - Raoul - 1/11/2004 7:09:26 PM
        
        60 years ago? How about telling that to those leftists who talk like I personally wiped out the Indians with smallpox? (n/t) - Tom Brosz - 1/11/2004 8:48:55 PM
        
        re: I'm a leftist but do I talk like that? - Raoul - 1/11/2004 10:26:59 PM
        
        re: I'm a leftist but do I talk like that? - Tom Brosz - 1/12/2004 2:15:42 AM
        
        There are a lot of people that like tunafish, too - Davin L. - 1/12/2004 4:18:38 AM
        
        Real leftists don't eat tuna - Tom Brosz - 1/12/2004 5:54:38 AM
        
        but your whole leftist thing is, um, a red herring - Davin L. - 1/12/2004 6:37:08 AM
        
        Uh...please note the subject line right under this one. (n/t) - Tom Brosz - 1/12/2004 7:26:09 AM
        
        I see, so you think Mary Anne is 'that leftist'? - Davin L. - 1/12/2004 4:03:23 PM
        
        See you at Flame, jackass (n/t) - Mary Anne - 1/12/2004 3:05:49 PM
        
        I'm sure the Germans likewise appreciate Americans scolding them about genocide, since we have an outstanding background with our Native nations. - Mary Anne - 1/11/2004 6:17:09 PM
        
        re: International law is IN-TER-NA-TIO-NAL ! - Raoul - 1/11/2004 3:46:39 PM
        
        Bullshit. The International was created by despots for the purpose of preserving their tyrannies from interference. - David F Mayer - 1/11/2004 5:54:25 PM
        
        re: You can't help your case by being rude - Raoul - 1/11/2004 7:21:59 PM
        
        My apology for using expletives. They don't help my case. - David F Mayer - 1/11/2004 11:10:26 PM
        
        So why did NATO bombard Eastern Europe? (n/t) - Tom Brosz - 1/10/2004 12:29:00 AM
        
        re: NATO is not UN - Raoul - 1/10/2004 10:44:42 AM
        
        re: And are you serious? - McFly - 1/9/2004 10:29:38 PM
        
        re: Not Pacifism, but Humiliation - Raoul - 1/10/2004 10:54:29 AM
        
        You seem to be overlooking... - S - 1/9/2004 11:33:46 PM
        
        Speaking of perspective... - Fox - 1/11/2004 5:48:00 AM
        
        re: You seem to be overlooking... - McFly - 1/10/2004 11:08:03 PM
        
        Footnote -- Jewish boycott of German goods - S - 1/10/2004 9:02:48 PM
        
        Sehr interessant - vielen Dank! - Fox - 1/10/2004 11:49:53 PM
        
        re: Footnote -- Jewish boycott of German goods - McFly - 1/10/2004 11:32:00 PM
        
        Pacifism, aggression and forgiveness - Mary Anne - 1/11/2004 6:13:19 PM
        
        re: Pacifism, aggression and forgiveness - McFly - 1/12/2004 1:42:38 AM
        
        re: Pacifism, aggression and forgiveness - Tom Brosz - 1/11/2004 9:04:05 PM
        
        Tell it to Martin Luther King. - Mary Anne - 1/11/2004 9:08:39 PM
        
        re: Tell it to Martin Luther King. - Tom Brosz - 1/11/2004 9:22:12 PM
        
        So let me get this straight: you think Hitler's rise to power was a *good* thing because he saved Western Europe from Stalin? - Mary Anne - 1/11/2004 9:37:41 PM
        
        re: get this straight - Tom Brosz - 1/12/2004 2:05:40 AM
        
        If you want your children to live in a world where ... - Mary Anne - 1/12/2004 12:08:00 PM
        
        Not "preferred." What works. They aren't always the same thing. - Tom Brosz - 1/12/2004 10:27:52 PM
        
        There's a real difference between the world as we'd like it to be and the world as it is - Larry J - 1/12/2004 6:59:45 PM
        
        re:write There's a real difference . . . - Mary Anne - 1/13/2004 3:36:01 PM
        
        Tom will choke if you stuff any more words into his mouth! How the heck did you draw that out of his post? (n/t) - McFly - 1/12/2004 1:27:20 AM
        
        And I quote: - Mary Anne - 1/12/2004 12:03:32 PM
        
        You've stretched this one past the breaking point, MA...that's not like you (n/t) - McFly - 1/12/2004 2:27:04 PM
        
        Hanging out here has had a very bad effect on me. - Mary Anne - 1/12/2004 2:51:40 PM
        
        ohh noo - Betsy - 1/13/2004 3:27:16 AM
        
        I know what you mean - Tom Brosz - 1/13/2004 12:49:00 AM
        
        Impersonal and polite - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/12/2004 4:19:54 PM
        
        And you've got to admit that the use of the words "self-determination" in any reference to Saddam's Iraq is a total absurdity. (n/t) - McFly - 1/9/2004 10:35:23 PM
        
        OK - then call it by its other name: "national sovereignty" - Fox - 1/11/2004 5:52:02 AM
        
        Nations have no rights: only people have rights (n/t) - David F Mayer - 1/11/2004 3:29:59 PM
        
        re: Certainly Not! - Raoul - 1/11/2004 7:33:56 PM
        
        The idea that states have "rights" is one thing that separates European thinking from American. (n/t) - Tom Brosz - 1/11/2004 9:09:26 PM
        
        re: Examples and Thomas Jefferson - Raoul - 1/11/2004 10:37:34 PM
        
        re: Thomas Jefferson - Fox - 1/12/2004 1:30:51 AM
        
        And by the way, Jefferson wasn't all that consistent either. - Tom Brosz - 1/12/2004 2:25:48 AM
        
        And how about Abraham Lincoln? (n/t) - Tom Brosz - 1/12/2004 2:20:06 AM
        
        re: 2003-2004 isn't 1990-1991 (n/t) - Raoul - 1/10/2004 10:56:24 AM
- Powell on the the 'Think Tank' and other peanut gallery spectators: - ebnelson - 1/9/2004 1:16:39 PM
- re: Think Tank - Tom Brosz - 1/9/2004 4:31:43 AM
  - the Bush administration clearly stated it was an imminent threat - Greg - 1/9/2004 1:38:39 PM
    - That's precisely the point - Donald - 1/9/2004 3:34:20 PM
  - re: Think Tank - Donald - 1/9/2004 5:03:40 AM
  - Ouch. Report is 111 pages long. - Tom Brosz - 1/9/2004 4:41:36 AM
- Meanwhile: US withdraws Iraq weapons team - Donald - 1/9/2004 3:51:00 AM
  - Powell Admits No Al Qaeda-Iraq Links - Donald - 1/9/2004 4:07:08 AM

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