It is a political issue

Current Events » in reply to I have never claimed that science was a democracy...

It is a political issue

Lee — 4/1/2008 8:02:06 PM (archived)

Here's why. Is the climate warming? A fairly large amount of data says it is. So? As has been pointed out, the Earth's climate is in constant flux. Glaciers in retreat from at least 1850, the Little Ice Age, the Medieval Warming Period, 5,000 year old plant matter underneath thousands of feet of glacial ice, the Younger Dryas event, forest remnants found in Greenland, etc all point to this. Yet, all of these events occurred NATURALLY. Massive swings in climate with no manmade catalysts. Atmospheric CO2 levels measured in parts per MILLION are not going to have dramatic effects on the climate. Our current impact on these cycles is lost in the noise.

The science on climate change is fairly straight forward, but that's not the issue. The issue is the political left, taking this science and using it to push through their twisted ideology. Increased bureaucracy, taxation, regulation, and oversight on a massive new scale.

The whole thread (128 posts)

just the link in text form - JEKing - 3/31/2008 7:11:21 AM
- Such high-pitched emotions - JEKing - 4/1/2008 10:17:51 PM
  - I will bet you any amount of money that it will not happen. - alcaray - 4/2/2008 6:37:52 AM
    - I'm with alcaray - TB - 4/3/2008 3:35:22 PM
    - re: I will bet you any amount of money that it will not happen. - JEKing - 4/3/2008 6:57:11 AM
      - You describe a typical convention for either party. (n/t) - alcaray - 4/3/2008 6:13:55 PM
- Hansen's latest paper - TB - 4/1/2008 3:12:10 PM
- re: just the link in text form - Rational Mind - 3/31/2008 1:58:11 PM
  - "SourceWatch.org"? Sounds very reputable. - The Silent Majority - 4/1/2008 2:31:58 AM
  - It's "A Convienient Lie" - ARRELL - 3/31/2008 3:50:55 PM
    - re: It's not just the blogs - SteveS - 4/1/2008 12:40:50 AM
      - As TB so helpfully pointed out... - ARRELL - 4/1/2008 2:51:51 AM
        
        re: Why shouldnâ€™t I believe these scientist? - SteveS - 4/1/2008 1:49:59 PM
        
        re: Why shouldn't I believe these scientist? - TB - 4/1/2008 2:28:09 PM
        
        re: Still, there are quite a number of "wait a minute" things out there in the science, work done by real and responsible scientists, and these need to be discussed on a case-by-case basis, not by si… - Lee - 4/1/2008 5:01:34 PM
        
        I have never claimed that science was a democracy... - ARRELL - 4/1/2008 5:23:05 PM
        
        Okay, let's skip to the politics - TB - 4/1/2008 11:40:36 PM
        
        I thought we already had long ago... (n/t) - Yeti - 4/2/2008 2:24:03 AM
        
        Actually, most people here are pretty much ignoring it. (n/t) - TB - 4/2/2008 3:34:21 AM
        
        It is a political issue - Lee - 4/1/2008 8:02:06 PM
        
        re: Which facts - SteveS - 4/1/2008 7:23:43 PM
        
        A good place to start - ARRELL - 4/1/2008 7:45:00 PM
        
        re: Already seen it - SteveS - 4/1/2008 9:33:56 PM
        
        Riddle me this (and this is also for TB) - Yeti - 4/2/2008 2:10:36 PM
        
        re: Riddle me this (and this is also for TB) - gbaikie - 4/2/2008 11:21:26 PM
        
        re: Riddle me this (and this is also for TB) - SteveS - 4/2/2008 10:15:46 PM
        
        Post your sources, please, if you wish me to do your homework for you. (n/t) - Yeti - 4/3/2008 2:35:05 AM
        
        re: Did it answer your riddle or not? - SteveS - 4/3/2008 12:55:20 PM
        
        re: "I don;t have the links.... but they're from NASA!" - Yeti - 4/3/2008 3:26:58 PM
        
        Allow me.,, - TB - 4/3/2008 3:54:12 PM
        
        re: Allow me.,, - SteveS - 4/3/2008 7:11:16 PM
        
        NASA paper - TB - 4/3/2008 8:26:26 PM
        
        Sooo... - Yeti - 4/3/2008 4:18:52 PM
        
        re:I was not being dishonest! - SteveS - 4/3/2008 5:27:14 PM
        
        Okay, maybe not - Yeti - 4/3/2008 7:05:58 PM
        
        re: Riddle me this (and this is also for TB) - SteveS - 4/2/2008 4:48:19 PM
        
        This isn't going to get you anywhere. - TB - 4/2/2008 9:43:49 PM
        
        re: Weâ€™ll see - SteveS - 4/3/2008 1:32:07 AM
        
        Apocryphal - Yeti - 4/3/2008 2:37:08 AM
        
        re: No, real - SteveS - 4/3/2008 1:01:12 PM
        
        It appears - Yeti - 4/3/2008 3:43:36 PM
        
        re: It appears - SteveS - 4/3/2008 6:11:08 PM
        
        Oh, C'mon. Think about the argument you are making - Yeti - 4/3/2008 7:02:34 PM
        
        Careers - TB - 4/3/2008 4:08:39 PM
        
        re: Your standards of what is defined as "ruining a career" are a bit stiff. - Yeti - 4/3/2008 4:24:11 PM
        
        It's hard to believe you work at a university. - TB - 4/3/2008 9:14:16 PM
        
        So essentially - Yeti - 4/4/2008 7:48:50 PM
        
        re: So essentially - TB - 4/4/2008 11:53:47 PM
        
        Woha. What do you want to discuss? - Yeti - 4/2/2008 6:49:29 PM
        
        re: Riddle me this (and this is also for TB) - TB - 4/2/2008 3:20:40 PM
        
        re: Already seen it - SteveS - 4/1/2008 9:33:18 PM
        
        "What proof is there that CO2 is causing the earth to warm?" - ARRELL - 4/1/2008 10:33:41 PM
        
        re: That's not true - SteveS - 4/2/2008 1:26:44 AM
        
        LOL I encourage everyone to look at the link- It really makes my point - ARRELL - 4/2/2008 3:35:28 AM
        
        You're a lot more comfortable at this level, aren't you? - TB - 4/2/2008 4:25:18 AM
        
        :) nope, but the paper is oviously at the level you and steve are comfortable with - ARRELL - 4/2/2008 4:33:06 AM
        
        Running on bluff now, are we? (n/t) - TB - 4/2/2008 5:03:13 AM
        
        Did you even read the paper? And you are claiming Arrel is bluffing this? - Yeti - 4/2/2008 1:29:21 PM
        
        No. Neither did you. - TB - 4/2/2008 2:57:31 PM
        
        Re: "neither did you" - Oh, bullshit. Now you're trying to bluster your way out. Doing exactly what you accused RL of doing. - Yeti - 4/2/2008 3:21:51 PM
        
        What bluster? I said I didn't read it. - TB - 4/2/2008 5:12:11 PM
        
        The bluster: Claiming I didn't read it- that I just googled up a refutation - Yeti - 4/2/2008 6:57:56 PM
        
        No, but the paper does... - ARRELL - 4/2/2008 5:43:09 AM
        
        re: Thanks for the link - SteveS - 4/2/2008 5:32:56 PM
        
        Ummm, ooookaayy... just one thing before I reply - ARRELL - 4/2/2008 3:06:13 AM
        
        Break it down. - alcaray - 4/1/2008 10:10:09 PM
        
        re: Break it down. - gbaikie - 4/2/2008 5:01:58 AM
        
        never mind (n/t) - alcaray - 4/2/2008 6:06:51 AM
        
        re: Break it down. - SteveS - 4/2/2008 12:32:06 AM
        
        Oh... my... god... you were really serious about that link? - ARRELL - 4/2/2008 3:47:02 AM
        
        I don't think the paper says that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas. - alcaray - 4/2/2008 3:25:24 AM
        
        We're talking parts per million - Lee - 4/1/2008 11:40:52 PM
        
        "THe effects on temperature are negligible at best. "- That is nonsense, the science says otherwise... - ARRELL - 4/2/2008 12:00:18 AM
        
        They haven't worked it out. - Lee - 4/2/2008 12:20:57 AM
        
        No we are not talking parts per million. And anyway, how would you know SteveS' objection till he has voiced it. - alcaray - 4/1/2008 11:51:57 PM
        
        CO2 levels are around 380 ppm (parts per MILLION) - Lee - 4/2/2008 12:12:25 AM
        
        More used to seeing it as a percent. (n/t) - alcaray - 4/2/2008 12:26:25 AM
        
        Think about this. - Lee - 4/2/2008 12:39:44 AM
        
        re: Think about this. - gbaikie - 4/2/2008 3:31:52 AM
        
        That is a problem isn't it. - Lee - 4/2/2008 4:22:35 AM
        
        Why do you need an exact number to start to worry? - alcaray - 4/2/2008 4:33:56 AM
        
        re: Why do you need an exact number to start to worry? - gbaikie - 4/2/2008 6:29:17 AM
        
        As usual... - alcaray - 4/2/2008 6:52:52 AM
        
        re: As usual... - gbaikie - 4/2/2008 8:20:35 AM
        
        try again - alcaray - 4/2/2008 5:00:02 PM
        
        re: try again - gbaikie - 4/2/2008 9:22:14 PM
        
        And like a poll. - Lee - 4/2/2008 6:12:34 AM
        
        Real world solutions? - alcaray - 4/2/2008 6:43:46 AM
        
        Posted that last one before it was done - sorry. - alcaray - 4/2/2008 6:46:38 AM
        
        To be fair to the scientists - Lee - 4/2/2008 5:11:04 PM
        
        You don't think they could be genuinely concerned? (n/t) - alcaray - 4/2/2008 10:29:33 PM
        
        The sun emits much more energy than my oven. So it must be the sun that heated my leftover lasagna. - alcaray - 4/2/2008 2:46:56 AM
        
        re: You got one of those outdoor ovens? - SteveS - 4/2/2008 11:08:08 PM
        
        re: "Water vapor is a far more effective green house gas than CO2." - Yeti - 4/2/2008 1:28:18 AM
        
        Most of those organizations don't put the question to a vote by their members. - Lee - 4/1/2008 3:24:59 AM
        
        Riiiiiight.... its all a big conspiracy of those evil scientists - ARRELL - 4/1/2008 4:06:31 AM
        
        No Conspiracy just fact. - Lee - 4/1/2008 5:08:21 AM
        
        Amazing.... and all those other scientist just remain silent?! lol - ARRELL - 4/1/2008 5:51:27 AM
      - That won't work. - TB - 4/1/2008 2:18:49 AM
      - re: It's not just the blogs - scientist - 4/1/2008 2:05:25 AM
        
        re: That's the whole point - SteveS - 4/1/2008 1:00:16 PM
        
        I Agree with TB. You need to pick a consistent handle and use it. (n/t) - Yeti - 4/1/2008 2:57:13 AM
        
        Pick a handle and stick to it. (n/t) - TB - 4/1/2008 2:26:09 AM
    - re: It's "A Convienient Lie" - gbaikie - 3/31/2008 6:43:59 PM
      - re: It's "A Convienient Lie" - No Foolin - 3/31/2008 6:46:47 PM
    - Global warming. - Lee - 3/31/2008 5:48:14 PM
      - And from Geenland. - Lee - 3/31/2008 6:16:04 PM
        
        Make that Greenland - Lee - 3/31/2008 6:17:42 PM
        
        re: Make that Greenland - adult - 3/31/2008 6:29:17 PM
        
        Snide remarks is a poor argument. - Lee - 3/31/2008 6:46:37 PM
        
        re: Snide remarks is a poor argument. - adult - 3/31/2008 6:48:48 PM
        
        Pick a handle and stick to it. I don't know who you think you're fooling. - TB - 3/31/2008 8:29:40 PM
      - And from Austria - Lee - 3/31/2008 6:15:08 PM
      - re: Global warming. - No Nonsense - 3/31/2008 5:53:24 PM
    - "for some reason believe that the issue of Global Warming is a political one" - TB - 3/31/2008 4:16:49 PM
      - Dont be an idiot - ARRELL - 3/31/2008 4:30:17 PM
        
        re: Dont be an idiot - TB - 3/31/2008 5:24:34 PM
        
        re: Dont be an idiot - et - 3/31/2008 5:45:50 PM
        
        re: Dont be an idiot - gbaikie - 4/1/2008 12:17:01 AM
        
        Too easy: "He may be a scientist [doubtful actually] but his job is as an manager. " - ARRELL - 4/1/2008 4:15:55 AM
        
        re: Too easy: "He may be a scientist [doubtful actually] but his job is as an manager. " - gbaikie - 4/1/2008 8:54:42 AM
        
        It really isn't an act, is it.....? - ARRELL - 4/1/2008 9:24:27 AM
        
        re: It really isn't an act, is it.....? - gbaikie - 4/2/2008 12:14:02 AM
        
        Evidence? I see no Evidence! - Tony - 4/1/2008 12:52:00 PM
        
        re: It really isn't an act, is it.....? - O Merka - 4/1/2008 12:43:46 PM
        
        Not sure who you are... - ARRELL - 4/1/2008 4:37:31 PM
        
        What's your point? - TB - 3/31/2008 8:34:20 PM
        
        re: Dont be an idiot - Rational Being - 3/31/2008 5:21:36 PM

Recent posts

On this day in Current Events

The whole thread (128 posts)