"Its simple." It is not so simple, as the "Mars enthusiasts" fixations lead to mental disfunctions which makes discussion frustrating if not impossible. Let's take the example immediately at hand:

"Many people believe we should target Mars because it is more interesting and a far more likely spot for sustainable colonization." Given the radiation loads that Mars experiences due to its lack of a molten core and protecting magnetosphere, Mars it is not going to be settled by large numbers of people - a small laboratory there is probably the best that can be hoped for. But no doubt Mars is way more interesting and way more fun than the Moon.

"Others think we should focus on the Moon first because it is easier" No question the Moon is easier and cheaper, but that is not the reason for returning there. It is also not to settle the Moon, nor to set up manufacturing facilities there.

"and have the mistaken belief that because it is closer that it is far safer (ignoring that all fatal failures have occured during launch or launch prep and return and even Apollo 13 was in Earth orbit at point of failure). " A moot point, as the same problems will affect manned Mars missions, in addition to the problems caused by the in-flight failure of systems during much longer flight times, as well as the rather complete lack of abort modes during flight to Mars.

"What really irritates the Mars supporters is the misinformation spouted by many moon first supporters that a lunar base will make martian missions more economical. Basic rocket physics and economics show that is a bunch of bull."

Okay, let's talk economics - supply and demand. First off, the public at large does not share the Mars Enthusiasts' needs - They do not want to pay for manned Mars flight right now. Since there is no general demand for them, if you're going to develop technologies which might be used later on for manned Mars flight, you're going to have to develop them now for other reasons that the public will pay for.

Now if you have the development of your launch technology already paid for for reasons which the public will support by themselves, then that reduces the direct costs of manned Mars flight.

"EP has nearly unique interests in the Moon," unique interests shared by many others.

"but like many moon supporters highly resents the attention Mars gets recognizing that funds pretty much dictate one or the other near term." What EP resents are the reality blinders that so many Mars Enthusiasts wear. Discussion goes along fine, and then bam, you'e hit with some kind of nonsense coming out of their complete mental disfunction. EP also resents the pseudo scientific swindles that some people pull in supporting the Enthusiasts' delusions. My favorite here is the University of Hawaii group, who earn enough money to live well in Hawaii by supporting these folks' delusions of an Earth-like Mars. If these "scientists" like Mars so much, why aren't they working out of the University of Alaska? Thankfully the Mars water data will be coming in in a few weeks, and this fraud will be brought to a rather abrupt end.

"Mars firsters resent that the Moon firsters have won a significant battle"

They sure do.

"that may cost us a future in space by taking an unjustified detour to the Moon which may lead to another premature dead end as it did before."

A flag and footprints tourist trip to Mars would be a dead end, that is if they could get anyone to pay for it in the first place, which they can't. We're returning to the Moon simply to do needed work which can best be done there.

"At the moment most Mars supporters are holding their breath and hopeing the return to the Moon program is kept focused on an eventual trip to Mars so that is does not become a huge waste and credibility killer like the ISS. If it does, while not the best option, it is certainly preferable to the lack of progress over the past 30 years. I believe Bush has appointed the right man to sheppard that path and am cautiously optamistic."

At the moment, most Mars enthusiasts are continually mistating the reasons for returning to the Moon in the vain hope that they will be able to confuse people by sharing their delusions with them. The sooner they stop, the sooner the essential work gets done, and the sooner I can return to the fun of private sector Mars rovers. I'd rather be hearing from Doug about his efforts in the planetary imaging market than going round and round and round and round with the Mars Enthusiasts on these issues, but given their mental disfunction this is exactly what happens.

Oh well, time for Lemonade Lucy's next round at the psychiatry stand.
Back to the Moon, this time to stay, and then on, on to Mars.

Regards,
EP