That's just math though

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That's just math though

SDF — 6/8/2005 9:19:06 PM (archived)

Don't get me wrong, I have alot of faith in math. It's just that not all equations represent reality accurately. Suppose that the universe isn't an idealized hypersphere. What exactly is a hypersphere that is not idealized? How many imperfections does it have, and do they mean anything for us? And more practically, mathematical models aren't real, they are abstractions, symbols. What IS real? What is it made of? Why does it subscribe to one mathematical description and not another different model?

Alas we are at the end of our abilities and still can't fully understand it all. If the universe is endless then knowing everything is logically impossible. If the universe is limited then knowing would leave us with no hope of surmounting our problems.

2nd Law of Thermodynamics: if an engine operating at 600 degrees K must exhaust heat at 300 degrees K then it can be at most 50 percent efficient. Does this somehow apply to knowledge as well? Are we missing a big piece of the picture because our brains must waste 'something' to function?

I don't know.

The whole thread (103 posts)

Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" - Gary - 6/7/2005 4:11:09 PM
- re: Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" - Phillip - 6/17/2005 3:28:29 PM
  - It's on "This American Life", a syndicated radio show broadcast on public radio stations. - Mary Anne - 6/17/2005 4:01:04 PM
    - re: It's on "This American Life", a syndicated radio show broadcast on public radio stations. - Phillip - 6/17/2005 5:51:03 PM
    - re: It's on "This American Life", a syndicated radio show broadcast on public radio stations. - Phillip - 6/17/2005 5:50:55 PM
- After all the comments in this thread I listened to it... - R.L. - 6/15/2005 3:50:11 AM
  - I'm a big fan of Sam Clemens but Sweeney does this better... - Gary - 6/16/2005 4:24:16 PM
    - re: I'm a big fan of Sam Clemens but Sweeney does this better... - R.L. - 6/16/2005 9:05:44 PM
      - Captain Stormfield is on-line - Gary - 6/17/2005 2:26:57 AM
        
        I reread the Captain Stormfield website - Gary - 6/17/2005 4:29:01 PM
- re: Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" - Frank Sitchler - 6/12/2005 6:20:03 PM
  - Well, hello! Do you listen to TAL often? - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 10:18:30 PM
    - Beat me to it ;-) - Fox - 6/12/2005 10:25:00 PM
- Literalism has its pitfalls - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 1:02:19 AM
- re: Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" - gbaikie - 6/9/2005 8:31:43 AM
- Heard it too. - Bowser - 6/8/2005 12:53:51 AM
  - You mean it was pre-ordained for you to hear it? :-D (n/t) - Tony - 6/8/2005 12:26:10 PM
    - No, but we WERE driving through burning bushes at the time, unscathed! (n/t) - Bowser - 6/8/2005 3:12:32 PM
- re: Interesting view point, but - Johannes - 6/7/2005 9:50:47 PM
  - Why do otherwise smart people think that religion solves the first causes problem? (n/t) - alcaray - 6/8/2005 3:17:56 PM
    - So true - Sam F. - 6/11/2005 1:33:06 PM
      - Some religions create a separation between human beings and divinity. - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 12:15:23 AM
        
        Very nicely written, Mary Anne - Sam F. - 6/16/2005 9:21:12 AM
        
        Thanks. (n/t) - Mary Anne - 6/18/2005 12:30:15 AM
      - I'm in the same boat - Gary - 6/11/2005 5:50:56 PM
        
        Things the bible don't tell ya.... - Nick Hoffman - 6/17/2005 3:53:09 PM
  - Creation is an oxymoron. - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/7/2005 10:04:23 PM
    - re: Creation is an oxymoron..... I see you Reorganized some words, did - Johannes - 6/7/2005 11:24:30 PM
      - 64,000 Monkeys.... - Nick Hoffman - 6/17/2005 3:54:53 PM
      - Well... - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/8/2005 3:09:51 AM
        
        I'd like to see your proof of your assertion (n/t) - alcaray - 6/8/2005 3:20:09 PM
        
        re: I'd like to see your proof of your assertion - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/9/2005 10:22:59 PM
        
        you said: - alcaray - 6/9/2005 10:48:29 PM
        
        Conservation of energy as it reagards a finite/infinite universe - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/10/2005 1:52:51 AM
        
        re:What is energy composed of ? (n/t) - Johannes - 6/10/2005 10:32:05 PM
        
        Many different things that have the potential to do work. (n/t) - alcaray - 6/13/2005 6:24:33 PM
        
        re: In other words, motion or movement?. (n/t) - Johannes - 6/14/2005 12:52:10 AM
        
        chemical, potential, kinetic, um can't remember. - alcaray - 6/14/2005 2:56:38 PM
        
        re: Give me an example of - Johannes - 6/15/2005 3:45:39 AM
        
        Why? - alcaray - 6/15/2005 3:07:25 PM
        
        re: Why? - Johannes - 6/16/2005 3:17:59 AM
        
        Nonsense... (as usual) - R.L. - 6/16/2005 9:02:33 PM
        
        re: Oxymoron?? - Johannes - 6/17/2005 5:07:53 PM
        
        Why do I bother....? - R.L. - 6/18/2005 5:23:24 AM
        
        re: Why do I bother....? - Johannes - 6/20/2005 6:01:49 PM
        
        Well if you want to pull poor Einstein into this... - alcaray - 6/16/2005 3:18:46 PM
        
        OK, I see where you are getting it from - alcaray - 6/10/2005 3:21:12 PM
        
        A bit more... - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/10/2005 2:43:20 AM
        
        consternation? no way! - alcaray - 6/10/2005 3:35:16 PM
        
        circular infinity - Gary - 6/8/2005 4:35:10 AM
        
        That's just math though - SDF - 6/8/2005 9:19:06 PM
        
        And... - SDF - 6/8/2005 9:34:21 PM
        
        Causation is driven by chaos - Gary - 6/8/2005 4:47:09 AM
        
        re: Causation is driven by chaos - gbaikie - 6/9/2005 10:10:03 AM
        
        Infinite Parameters (warning long) - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/8/2005 10:20:41 AM
        
        Universal I/O - Robert - 6/14/2005 3:31:08 AM
        
        Information, Intelligence & Unique Expression - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/15/2005 5:39:24 AM
        
        re: Information, Intelligence & Unique Expression - Robert - 6/15/2005 4:51:46 PM
        
        "Entropy = Chaos" is what drives this process - Gary - 6/15/2005 4:28:20 AM
        
        re: "Entropy = Chaos" is what drives this process - Johannes - 6/17/2005 6:09:34 PM
        
        re: "Entropy != Chaos", electrons, Heisenberg, and bandpass filters - Robert - 6/15/2005 4:02:31 PM
        
        Randomness, fractals, strange attractors, etc. - Gary - 6/16/2005 4:31:02 AM
        
        re: Randomness - Robert - 6/16/2005 4:25:07 PM
        
        The Anthropic Principle - Fox - 6/16/2005 2:30:44 AM
        
        re: Universal I/O: Interesting ideas (n/t) - Johannes - 6/15/2005 2:02:06 AM
        
        The problem must be addressed at the "atomic" level - Gary - 6/8/2005 4:11:59 PM
        
        Is there really any chaos in the game of life? - alcaray - 6/8/2005 4:55:43 PM
        
        Conway’s Game of Life is the starting point - Gary - 6/10/2005 3:46:23 AM
        
        disagree: adding more dimensions to Life does not require adding anything random. - alcaray - 6/10/2005 3:40:07 PM
        
        Randomness is required to model this problem - Gary - 6/10/2005 4:20:32 PM
        
        nice stuff, Gary - Daniel - 6/12/2005 4:49:44 PM
        
        Thanks... Starting points for this sort of analysis - Gary - 6/12/2005 7:25:47 PM
        
        re: Thanks... Starting points for this sort of analysis - Daniel - 6/13/2005 7:11:59 AM
        
        .. actually, I should clarify here: - Daniel - 6/13/2005 7:23:29 AM
        
        Redefining God - Gary - 6/13/2005 3:36:51 PM
        
        creation as artifact - Daniel - 6/13/2005 5:30:45 PM
        
        re: Randomness is required to model this problem - Johannes - 6/10/2005 10:26:52 PM
        
        One it-pick: science does a good deal more than speculate (n/t) - alcaray - 6/11/2005 3:34:14 PM
        
        sorry: nit-pick (n/t) - alcaray - 6/11/2005 3:34:53 PM
        
        Mixing theology and science - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/11/2005 4:05:01 AM
        
        re: Thanks for the feedback fellows. I'd like clarification on some points. - Johannes - 6/12/2005 3:50:34 AM
        
        My pleasure...but remember you asked for it! - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/12/2005 7:44:34 AM
        
        re: My pleasure...but remember you asked for it! - Johannes - 6/14/2005 12:46:11 AM
        
        Life is a good model of a creationist view - alcaray - 6/10/2005 4:44:18 PM
        
        God is a dungeon master? - Lee - 6/12/2005 2:18:30 AM
        
        The game might have only a few set of rules - Gary - 6/10/2005 5:09:17 PM
        
        This thread has become funny! - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 1:36:57 AM
        
        The first cause is the first cause - alcaray - 6/12/2005 4:40:11 PM
        
        The first 'cause was the answer to the first "why?" (n/t) - Fox - 6/12/2005 5:28:05 PM
        
        "But, why?" (n/t) - alcaray - 6/13/2005 3:33:41 PM
        
        There are about 5.5-6 billion reasons I'm not laughing. - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/12/2005 6:15:26 AM
        
        In reply to your first question: - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 12:27:35 PM
        
        Theology got left at the door - Gary - 6/12/2005 5:45:22 AM
        
        Whenever God enters the room, - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 12:05:25 PM
        
        re: In God we trust, others pay cash. (n/t) - Johannes - 6/12/2005 3:53:58 AM
        
        I should have capitalized the L in Life - alcaray - 6/8/2005 5:43:29 PM
        
        re: I should have capitalized the L in Life - Fox - 6/9/2005 5:04:20 PM
        
        Definitely some chaos in that Life - alcaray - 6/9/2005 5:10:47 PM
        
        "Sum over histories" - Fox - 6/15/2005 2:49:20 PM
        
        Agent Smith Quotes - SDF - 6/8/2005 5:16:46 PM
        
        Does the "Matrix" run on an Intel or AMD chip? - Gary - 6/10/2005 4:31:42 PM
        
        Obviously, it runs on a virtual machine ;-) (n/t) - . - 6/14/2005 12:32:28 PM
        
        What's the virtual machine running on? :-( (n/t) - Gary - 6/14/2005 3:54:11 PM

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