Randomness, fractals, strange attractors, etc.

Off Topic » in reply to re: "Entropy != Chaos", electrons, Heisenberg, and bandpass filters

Randomness, fractals, strange attractors, etc.

Gary — 6/16/2005 4:31:02 AM (archived)

Robert has touched upon this but coming up with something that is truely random is very difficult. Most digital "random" number generators will create a recognizable pattern if they're displayed the right way, e.g. have the "random" digits drive pixels on a CRT. Of course a fractal like a Mandelbrot dragon was deliberately designed to produce interesting patterns. Having a recognizable shape arising from a chaotic system is a big clue that perhaps something like this is driving fundamental physics. After presenting the results of a Monte Carlo simulation, one of the typical "screw questions" that comes up during Q&A is "What random number generator did you use?" I always cut that one off by replying that I use the digits of Pi. I have a table of Pi calculated to 10 million digits. My random number generator just grabs numbers in 6 digit hunks until the table is exhausted and then it restarts the table. The statistics that I get from that process are absolutely clean.

Gary

The whole thread (103 posts)

Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" - Gary - 6/7/2005 4:11:09 PM
- re: Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" - Phillip - 6/17/2005 3:28:29 PM
  - It's on "This American Life", a syndicated radio show broadcast on public radio stations. - Mary Anne - 6/17/2005 4:01:04 PM
    - re: It's on "This American Life", a syndicated radio show broadcast on public radio stations. - Phillip - 6/17/2005 5:51:03 PM
    - re: It's on "This American Life", a syndicated radio show broadcast on public radio stations. - Phillip - 6/17/2005 5:50:55 PM
- After all the comments in this thread I listened to it... - R.L. - 6/15/2005 3:50:11 AM
  - I'm a big fan of Sam Clemens but Sweeney does this better... - Gary - 6/16/2005 4:24:16 PM
    - re: I'm a big fan of Sam Clemens but Sweeney does this better... - R.L. - 6/16/2005 9:05:44 PM
      - Captain Stormfield is on-line - Gary - 6/17/2005 2:26:57 AM
        
        I reread the Captain Stormfield website - Gary - 6/17/2005 4:29:01 PM
- re: Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" - Frank Sitchler - 6/12/2005 6:20:03 PM
  - Well, hello! Do you listen to TAL often? - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 10:18:30 PM
    - Beat me to it ;-) - Fox - 6/12/2005 10:25:00 PM
- Literalism has its pitfalls - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 1:02:19 AM
- re: Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" - gbaikie - 6/9/2005 8:31:43 AM
- Heard it too. - Bowser - 6/8/2005 12:53:51 AM
  - You mean it was pre-ordained for you to hear it? :-D (n/t) - Tony - 6/8/2005 12:26:10 PM
    - No, but we WERE driving through burning bushes at the time, unscathed! (n/t) - Bowser - 6/8/2005 3:12:32 PM
- re: Interesting view point, but - Johannes - 6/7/2005 9:50:47 PM
  - Why do otherwise smart people think that religion solves the first causes problem? (n/t) - alcaray - 6/8/2005 3:17:56 PM
    - So true - Sam F. - 6/11/2005 1:33:06 PM
      - Some religions create a separation between human beings and divinity. - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 12:15:23 AM
        
        Very nicely written, Mary Anne - Sam F. - 6/16/2005 9:21:12 AM
        
        Thanks. (n/t) - Mary Anne - 6/18/2005 12:30:15 AM
      - I'm in the same boat - Gary - 6/11/2005 5:50:56 PM
        
        Things the bible don't tell ya.... - Nick Hoffman - 6/17/2005 3:53:09 PM
  - Creation is an oxymoron. - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/7/2005 10:04:23 PM
    - re: Creation is an oxymoron..... I see you Reorganized some words, did - Johannes - 6/7/2005 11:24:30 PM
      - 64,000 Monkeys.... - Nick Hoffman - 6/17/2005 3:54:53 PM
      - Well... - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/8/2005 3:09:51 AM
        
        I'd like to see your proof of your assertion (n/t) - alcaray - 6/8/2005 3:20:09 PM
        
        re: I'd like to see your proof of your assertion - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/9/2005 10:22:59 PM
        
        you said: - alcaray - 6/9/2005 10:48:29 PM
        
        Conservation of energy as it reagards a finite/infinite universe - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/10/2005 1:52:51 AM
        
        re:What is energy composed of ? (n/t) - Johannes - 6/10/2005 10:32:05 PM
        
        Many different things that have the potential to do work. (n/t) - alcaray - 6/13/2005 6:24:33 PM
        
        re: In other words, motion or movement?. (n/t) - Johannes - 6/14/2005 12:52:10 AM
        
        chemical, potential, kinetic, um can't remember. - alcaray - 6/14/2005 2:56:38 PM
        
        re: Give me an example of - Johannes - 6/15/2005 3:45:39 AM
        
        Why? - alcaray - 6/15/2005 3:07:25 PM
        
        re: Why? - Johannes - 6/16/2005 3:17:59 AM
        
        Nonsense... (as usual) - R.L. - 6/16/2005 9:02:33 PM
        
        re: Oxymoron?? - Johannes - 6/17/2005 5:07:53 PM
        
        Why do I bother....? - R.L. - 6/18/2005 5:23:24 AM
        
        re: Why do I bother....? - Johannes - 6/20/2005 6:01:49 PM
        
        Well if you want to pull poor Einstein into this... - alcaray - 6/16/2005 3:18:46 PM
        
        OK, I see where you are getting it from - alcaray - 6/10/2005 3:21:12 PM
        
        A bit more... - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/10/2005 2:43:20 AM
        
        consternation? no way! - alcaray - 6/10/2005 3:35:16 PM
        
        circular infinity - Gary - 6/8/2005 4:35:10 AM
        
        That's just math though - SDF - 6/8/2005 9:19:06 PM
        
        And... - SDF - 6/8/2005 9:34:21 PM
        
        Causation is driven by chaos - Gary - 6/8/2005 4:47:09 AM
        
        re: Causation is driven by chaos - gbaikie - 6/9/2005 10:10:03 AM
        
        Infinite Parameters (warning long) - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/8/2005 10:20:41 AM
        
        Universal I/O - Robert - 6/14/2005 3:31:08 AM
        
        Information, Intelligence & Unique Expression - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/15/2005 5:39:24 AM
        
        re: Information, Intelligence & Unique Expression - Robert - 6/15/2005 4:51:46 PM
        
        "Entropy = Chaos" is what drives this process - Gary - 6/15/2005 4:28:20 AM
        
        re: "Entropy = Chaos" is what drives this process - Johannes - 6/17/2005 6:09:34 PM
        
        re: "Entropy != Chaos", electrons, Heisenberg, and bandpass filters - Robert - 6/15/2005 4:02:31 PM
        
        Randomness, fractals, strange attractors, etc. - Gary - 6/16/2005 4:31:02 AM
        
        re: Randomness - Robert - 6/16/2005 4:25:07 PM
        
        The Anthropic Principle - Fox - 6/16/2005 2:30:44 AM
        
        re: Universal I/O: Interesting ideas (n/t) - Johannes - 6/15/2005 2:02:06 AM
        
        The problem must be addressed at the "atomic" level - Gary - 6/8/2005 4:11:59 PM
        
        Is there really any chaos in the game of life? - alcaray - 6/8/2005 4:55:43 PM
        
        Conway’s Game of Life is the starting point - Gary - 6/10/2005 3:46:23 AM
        
        disagree: adding more dimensions to Life does not require adding anything random. - alcaray - 6/10/2005 3:40:07 PM
        
        Randomness is required to model this problem - Gary - 6/10/2005 4:20:32 PM
        
        nice stuff, Gary - Daniel - 6/12/2005 4:49:44 PM
        
        Thanks... Starting points for this sort of analysis - Gary - 6/12/2005 7:25:47 PM
        
        re: Thanks... Starting points for this sort of analysis - Daniel - 6/13/2005 7:11:59 AM
        
        .. actually, I should clarify here: - Daniel - 6/13/2005 7:23:29 AM
        
        Redefining God - Gary - 6/13/2005 3:36:51 PM
        
        creation as artifact - Daniel - 6/13/2005 5:30:45 PM
        
        re: Randomness is required to model this problem - Johannes - 6/10/2005 10:26:52 PM
        
        One it-pick: science does a good deal more than speculate (n/t) - alcaray - 6/11/2005 3:34:14 PM
        
        sorry: nit-pick (n/t) - alcaray - 6/11/2005 3:34:53 PM
        
        Mixing theology and science - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/11/2005 4:05:01 AM
        
        re: Thanks for the feedback fellows. I'd like clarification on some points. - Johannes - 6/12/2005 3:50:34 AM
        
        My pleasure...but remember you asked for it! - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/12/2005 7:44:34 AM
        
        re: My pleasure...but remember you asked for it! - Johannes - 6/14/2005 12:46:11 AM
        
        Life is a good model of a creationist view - alcaray - 6/10/2005 4:44:18 PM
        
        God is a dungeon master? - Lee - 6/12/2005 2:18:30 AM
        
        The game might have only a few set of rules - Gary - 6/10/2005 5:09:17 PM
        
        This thread has become funny! - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 1:36:57 AM
        
        The first cause is the first cause - alcaray - 6/12/2005 4:40:11 PM
        
        The first 'cause was the answer to the first "why?" (n/t) - Fox - 6/12/2005 5:28:05 PM
        
        "But, why?" (n/t) - alcaray - 6/13/2005 3:33:41 PM
        
        There are about 5.5-6 billion reasons I'm not laughing. - SDAI-Tech1 - 6/12/2005 6:15:26 AM
        
        In reply to your first question: - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 12:27:35 PM
        
        Theology got left at the door - Gary - 6/12/2005 5:45:22 AM
        
        Whenever God enters the room, - Mary Anne - 6/12/2005 12:05:25 PM
        
        re: In God we trust, others pay cash. (n/t) - Johannes - 6/12/2005 3:53:58 AM
        
        I should have capitalized the L in Life - alcaray - 6/8/2005 5:43:29 PM
        
        re: I should have capitalized the L in Life - Fox - 6/9/2005 5:04:20 PM
        
        Definitely some chaos in that Life - alcaray - 6/9/2005 5:10:47 PM
        
        "Sum over histories" - Fox - 6/15/2005 2:49:20 PM
        
        Agent Smith Quotes - SDF - 6/8/2005 5:16:46 PM
        
        Does the "Matrix" run on an Intel or AMD chip? - Gary - 6/10/2005 4:31:42 PM
        
        Obviously, it runs on a virtual machine ;-) (n/t) - . - 6/14/2005 12:32:28 PM
        
        What's the virtual machine running on? :-( (n/t) - Gary - 6/14/2005 3:54:11 PM

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