re: The natural world....

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re: The natural world....

Jody — 5/8/2007 6:16:18 PM (archived)

abounds in catastrophes, disasters, imperfections,dysfunctions, suffering, and cruelty.

I do not attribute all this misery, cruelty, and destruction to the specific design of the Creator.

I shudder in terror at the thought that some people of faith would implicitly attribute these calamities to the Creator's faulty design. I rather see it as a consequence of the clumsy ways of the evolutionary process. The God of revelation and faith is a God of love and mercy, and of wisdom.

Francisco J. Ayala

The whole thread (136 posts)

Survivor of the tornado - azstrummer - 5/7/2007 6:15:29 PM
- re: This has been a great post Art! (n/t) - Jody - 5/10/2007 2:56:21 AM
  - Thanks. This should make it better - the definitive word - azstrummer - 5/10/2007 4:35:14 AM
    - LOL...Gotta love that guy! (n/t) - Jody - 5/10/2007 11:59:59 AM
- I'm with you Art - McFly - 5/8/2007 8:55:49 PM
  - The insignificance of humanity - Laurie Street - 5/9/2007 6:12:21 PM
    - re: Insignificant by WHOM? - Jody - 5/9/2007 8:11:02 PM
      - re: Insignificant by WHOM? - Jody - 5/9/2007 8:19:35 PM
    - Yeah, but who created that telescope, that satellite; and who's doing the looking? - Daniel - 5/9/2007 6:42:18 PM
      - The burden of proof - Raoul - 5/9/2007 8:30:32 PM
        
        Not really! - Daniel - 5/10/2007 6:40:44 PM
        
        Not really! - Daniel - 5/10/2007 6:40:38 PM
        
        Nicely said, Daniel (n/t) - Lindy - 5/11/2007 12:42:44 AM
        
        Something is significant, recognized, beautiful, interesting because... - Raoul - 5/10/2007 8:02:24 PM
        
        Really! - Laurie Street - 5/10/2007 7:30:13 PM
        
        Maybe it's because conciousness and creativity can also create elements heavier than iron. - Lee - 5/12/2007 5:57:11 PM
        
        Speaking of which - Lindy - 5/12/2007 6:36:23 PM
        
        Stainless steel is a common material in iron/nickel asteroids. - Lee - 5/12/2007 10:45:18 PM
        
        So they published their report.... - Lindy - 5/12/2007 11:10:27 PM
        
        re: Really! - Daniel - 5/11/2007 12:03:32 AM
        
        re: Really! - Laurie Street - 5/11/2007 12:43:44 AM
        
        It's a significant qualitative difference, even from a detached objective point of view - Daniel - 5/11/2007 1:42:28 AM
        
        re: The burden of proof - REB - 5/9/2007 8:38:03 PM
        
        re:Might as well call it a night, REB... - Jody - 5/9/2007 11:17:31 PM
        
        We think we're special....but only humans think so (n/t) - Raoul - 5/9/2007 9:09:00 PM
        
        That we know of... so far (n/t) - Fox - 5/10/2007 3:02:27 AM
        
        "We are rare. We are special." - azstrummer - 5/9/2007 8:53:35 PM
        
        re:Okay Stuart Smart Ass Art:) - Jody - 5/9/2007 11:04:17 PM
        
        re: The burden of proof - Jody - 5/9/2007 8:36:23 PM
        
        Because that would be returning to the pre-copernician universe (n/t) - Raoul - 5/9/2007 9:02:52 PM
        
        re: Not true - Jody - 5/9/2007 11:55:03 PM
        
        Burden - Raoul - 5/10/2007 5:32:02 AM
        
        Raoul: Define "Significant" (n/t) - Jody - 5/10/2007 11:28:16 AM
        
        re: My definition of significant is: - Jody - 5/10/2007 11:57:41 AM
        
        If everything is significant, then nothing is significant. (n/t) - Laurie Street - 5/10/2007 7:16:03 PM
        
        re: I realize this is logical reasoning... - Jody - 5/10/2007 11:10:28 PM
        
        Yes, because it's all relative :-) (n/t) - Raoul - 5/10/2007 8:04:11 PM
        
        Noticeable, recognizable.....to humans (n/t) - Raoul - 5/10/2007 11:55:52 AM
        
        Okay...in there lies the rub - Jody - 5/10/2007 12:02:09 PM
        
        Maybe this will help settle the issue? - Lindy - 5/11/2007 5:28:18 PM
        
        LOL! - REB - 5/11/2007 9:02:02 PM
        
        Was God fair in that test? - Raoul - 5/11/2007 7:48:23 PM
      - Great Response, Daniel!! (n/t) - Jody - 5/9/2007 8:12:03 PM
    - Hubble image (fairly large) - LS - 5/9/2007 6:13:39 PM
      - What that picture proves to me - azstrummer - 5/9/2007 8:23:15 PM
      - And out of all that matter, how much of it can appreciate its beauty or be awed by it all? (n/t) - REB - 5/9/2007 6:16:09 PM
        
        It is beautiful because it suits our eyes and our culture - Raoul - 5/10/2007 6:42:23 PM
  - You can call Humanity many things, but unimportant is not one of them. - Lee - 5/9/2007 3:35:11 AM
    - But we are unimportant, insignificant! - Raoul - 5/9/2007 5:42:27 AM
      - re: But we are unimportant, insignificant! - Lindy - 5/11/2007 4:17:27 PM
        
        If we can communicate with them - Raoul - 5/11/2007 7:32:40 PM
        
        re: If we can communicate with them - Lindy - 5/12/2007 2:02:06 PM
      - I disagree - REB - 5/9/2007 12:54:18 PM
        
        We cannot claim "intelligence" is the summum of the universe - Raoul - 5/9/2007 4:20:16 PM
        
        Without intelligence, the Universe may as well not even exist. - Lee - 5/10/2007 12:38:23 AM
        
        "We are inanimate matter formed into self organizing self aware intelligences. " - Lindy - 5/12/2007 2:28:31 PM
        
        True, as far as you personally are concerned. The universe doesn't care. (n/t) - Laurie Street - 5/11/2007 12:32:48 AM
        
        But I am the Universe. - Lee - 5/11/2007 1:48:58 AM
        
        re: But I am the Universe. - Lindy - 5/12/2007 2:30:40 PM
        
        We are the world... - Laurie Street - 5/11/2007 3:12:38 AM
        
        re: We are the world... - REB - 5/11/2007 3:25:22 PM
        
        Some examples - Raoul - 5/11/2007 4:33:39 PM
        
        re: We are the world... - Laurie Street - 5/11/2007 3:49:57 PM
        
        And what "nature" can accomplish with a supernova... - Lee - 5/11/2007 8:33:02 PM
        
        re:Maybe we are unimportant per se...but we are worthwhile (n/t) - Jody - 5/9/2007 5:39:48 PM
        
        Worthwhile to our own species, yes indeed! - Raoul - 5/9/2007 9:04:52 PM
        
        re: True..(.but that is not enough for you?) (n/t) - Jody - 5/9/2007 11:27:06 PM
        
        I don't think it should - Raoul - 5/10/2007 12:02:45 PM
        
        We can claim "intelligence" is rare in this universe - REB - 5/9/2007 4:27:51 PM
        
        re: WE DON'T KNOW and we must accept that. - Raoul - 5/9/2007 8:18:22 PM
      - Humanity is the proverbial mustard seed. - Lee - 5/9/2007 11:20:11 AM
  - Cosmic Unimportance - Lindy - 5/8/2007 10:52:36 PM
    - Absolutely right, Lindy (n/t) - Jody - 5/9/2007 8:22:29 PM
    - We are a rare thing in the Universe. - REB - 5/9/2007 12:52:01 PM
    - re: Cosmic Unimportance - azstrummer - 5/9/2007 3:43:39 AM
      - re: EEK!!... (n/t) - Jody - 5/9/2007 8:23:48 PM
      - Mama Mia! - Lindy - 5/9/2007 5:46:37 PM
        
        Batteries..... - azstrummer - 5/9/2007 8:26:51 PM
        
        re: Okay Art..you started it:) - Jody - 5/9/2007 8:41:06 PM
        
        Maybe .... - Lindy - 5/9/2007 9:51:09 PM
        
        re: Okay Art..you started it:) - azstrummer - 5/9/2007 8:55:47 PM
        
        Ahhhh... - Jody - 5/9/2007 11:06:58 PM
  - re: I'm with you Art - REB - 5/8/2007 9:53:16 PM
    - "But what if we find they worship the same God humans do? " - azstrummer - 5/9/2007 12:03:50 AM
      - re: "But what if we find they worship the same God humans do? " - REB - 5/9/2007 12:41:30 PM
- re: The natural world.... - Jody - 5/8/2007 6:16:18 PM
- I think it comes down to an issue of tollerance Art. - TAFKASE - 5/8/2007 2:18:05 PM
  - Tolerance vs. doormat - Mary Anne - 5/8/2007 5:17:08 PM
    - No, that's not what I was saying at all. - The Artist formerly known as Scott Evil - 5/8/2007 6:02:44 PM
- re: Survivor of the tornado - REB - 5/8/2007 12:43:08 PM
  - Death to God - azstrummer - 5/8/2007 2:41:13 PM
    - But suffering isn't all bad. - Lee - 5/9/2007 2:46:49 AM
      - re: But suffering isn't all bad. - azstrummer - 5/9/2007 3:40:05 AM
        
        I take it you haven't gone through much hardship - Lee - 5/9/2007 3:56:38 AM
        
        re: I take it you haven't gone through much hardship - azstrummer - 5/9/2007 8:49:41 PM
        
        I know what you are talking about. (n/t) - REB - 5/9/2007 12:59:10 PM
    - Life, the Universe and Everything - REB - 5/8/2007 2:58:41 PM
- re: Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. - Johannes - 5/8/2007 3:14:18 AM
  - My favorite Einstein quote. - Lee - 5/8/2007 3:39:16 AM
    - Darwin Quotes - edgar - 5/8/2007 3:57:01 PM
  - Thank you for those beautiful quotes - Lindy - 5/8/2007 3:20:52 AM
- Reaping the Whirlwind - ER - 5/7/2007 11:45:01 PM
  - Actually it's not. - Lee - 5/8/2007 3:55:16 AM
  - re: Reaping the Whirlwind - Lindy - 5/8/2007 3:25:00 AM
  - re: Reaping the Whirlwind - FrankC - 5/8/2007 1:01:09 AM
    - Touche (n/t) - ER - 5/8/2007 1:41:56 AM
- " We simply have to walk around like zombies and love the cosmic practical joker. " - Lindy - 5/7/2007 10:05:53 PM
  - Feeling better - azstrummer - 5/8/2007 2:21:00 AM
- Premises - Bowser - 5/7/2007 9:47:06 PM
- Jesus still loves you. =) (n/t) - Lee - 5/7/2007 9:18:15 PM
  - My pool guy loves me? Ewwww! (n/t) - azstrummer - 5/7/2007 9:24:44 PM
- Somebody thanks God for surviving a terrible event and you go bizerk. - The Artist formerly known as Scott Evil - 5/7/2007 8:50:56 PM
  - Just doesn't make sense. - azstrummer - 5/7/2007 9:20:52 PM
- re: I used to feel the way you do Art. - Jody - 5/7/2007 7:47:23 PM
  - re: I think that you are in the next level - Jody - 5/8/2007 1:20:57 AM
  - I love the contrast - azstrummer - 5/7/2007 8:16:12 PM
    - Why shouldn't you have liked her response? - TB - 5/8/2007 1:08:13 AM
      - re: I may have come across smug to you TB.... - Jody - 5/8/2007 10:15:45 PM
      - re: It was not my intention to come across smug...believe me, TB. - Jody - 5/8/2007 1:32:15 AM
- Tell ya what... - TB - 5/7/2007 6:30:32 PM
  - Hypocrisy abounds - azstrummer - 5/7/2007 7:22:58 PM
    - Issues - TB - 5/8/2007 12:48:59 AM
      - Name might be wrong - azstrummer - 5/8/2007 2:14:26 PM
    - I can only assume that you hate the whole world...., - FrankC - 5/7/2007 9:37:33 PM
      - Frank, Frank - azstrummer - 5/8/2007 5:56:12 PM
        
        Okay so you are not serious, fair enough - FrankC - 5/8/2007 6:25:30 PM
        
        re: Okay so you are not serious, fair enough - azstrummer - 5/8/2007 6:31:31 PM
    - If you don't think weddings are about religon then don't attend the "chapel" part of the wedding. - The Artist formerly known as Scott Evil - 5/7/2007 8:54:18 PM
      - re: If you don't think weddings are about religon then don't attend the "chapel" part of the wedding. - azstrummer - 5/7/2007 9:22:40 PM
        
        Art, it does sound like...... - Lindy - 5/7/2007 10:31:35 PM
        
        Lindy, Lindy - azstrummer - 5/8/2007 3:00:43 AM
        
        Can't say that I know.... - Lindy - 5/8/2007 3:15:11 AM
        
        *I* do. - Mary Anne - 5/8/2007 1:12:41 PM
        
        Some of that I understand some I don't - FrankC - 5/8/2007 5:07:54 PM
        
        Well said as always - azstrummer - 5/8/2007 2:12:12 PM
        
        re: *I* do. - Lindy - 5/8/2007 2:12:03 PM

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The whole thread (136 posts)