re: Yes. And I'm not certain hydrogen can be stored safely at 10,000 psi

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re: Yes. And I'm not certain hydrogen can be stored safely at 10,000 psi

EnergyExpert — 2/1/2007 5:45:18 AM (archived)

Here Yeti, you may deconstruct these answers to your question.

http://www.hydrogenhighway.ca.gov/media/h2briefing/ogden.pdf

and

http://www.hydrogenhighway.ca.gov/media/h2briefing/ogden.pdf

They are designed to communicate what is going on to non-engineers.

But you won’t get it because you don’t want to get it, you just want to twist words.

The whole thread (132 posts)

Robert Zubrin blasts the "Hydrogen Economy" - nick hoffman - 1/23/2007 6:19:44 AM
- Zubrin's folly - EnergyExpert - 2/3/2007 5:36:31 PM
  - Single-Seat Cars Could Reduce Fuel Consumption by 75 Percent - SDF - 2/3/2007 6:56:47 PM
    - re: Single-Seat Cars Could Reduce Fuel Consumption by 75 Percent - EnergyExpert - 2/3/2007 7:37:43 PM
      - I guarantee you, hydrogen is not feasible. (n/t) - SDF - 2/3/2007 8:59:06 PM
        
        Not if its done the way the aerospace industry does it. - EnergyExpert - 2/5/2007 5:22:09 AM
        
        Here is where you are wrong.... - SDF - 2/5/2007 6:47:26 AM
        
        Again, you don;t get it. - EnergyExpert - 2/5/2007 8:03:31 AM
        
        You're losing every argument. - SDF - 2/5/2007 4:28:07 PM
        
        Nope, You failed to make your case - EnergyExpert - 2/5/2007 6:40:42 PM
        
        I've totally made my case - SDF - 2/5/2007 10:22:19 PM
        
        The Decline of Aerospace Engineering - EnergyExpert - 2/6/2007 4:56:08 PM
        
        Do you have any idea how many 2-MW wind turbines it would take to produce enough hydrogen for your plan? - SDF - 2/6/2007 6:42:13 PM
        
        Why use 2mw whne 5 mw are available? - EnergyExpert - 2/6/2007 8:52:28 PM
        
        You didn't answer my question - SDF - 2/6/2007 10:46:35 PM
        
        re: You didn't answer my question - EnergyExpert - 2/7/2007 4:51:33 AM
        
        Once again.... - Yeti - 2/7/2007 11:48:25 PM
        
        Wind energy is a red herring. - SDF - 2/8/2007 6:03:56 AM
        
        You've made a couple interesting points. - SDF - 2/7/2007 6:03:08 AM
        
        re: You've made a couple interesting points. - EnergyExpert - 2/7/2007 5:25:31 PM
        
        I'm pessimistic about your scenario. - SDF - 2/7/2007 11:43:03 PM
        
        Any why oppose something that would make your plan more feasible? - SDF - 2/7/2007 6:14:54 AM
        
        Another point in my favor - SDF - 2/7/2007 6:40:29 AM
    - Sorry, but I believe a nail this big requires a hammer of sufficient size. (n/t) - SDF - 2/3/2007 6:58:49 PM
      - Make them flex-fueled just as Zubrin suggests. - SDF - 2/3/2007 7:13:32 PM
        
        re: Make them flex-fueled just as Zubrin suggests. - EnergyExpert - 2/3/2007 7:40:28 PM
        
        We could start with a 10% ethanol in gasoline mixture - SDF - 2/3/2007 11:21:51 PM
        
        re: We could start with a 10% ethanol in gasoline mixture - EnergyExpert - 2/4/2007 10:41:05 PM
        
        And then reduce the average weight of vehicles on the road - SDF - 2/4/2007 9:27:25 PM
        
        Formula correction - SDF - 2/5/2007 4:48:25 AM
        
        HTML preview didn't display that properly - SDF - 2/5/2007 4:50:56 AM
        
        Socialist solutions - EnergyExpert - 2/4/2007 10:59:23 PM
        
        A real engineer goes for the solution. (n/t) - SDF - 2/4/2007 11:50:36 PM
        
        And Socialists force them on people (NT) (n/t) - EnergyExpert - 2/5/2007 1:56:33 AM
        
        When there is only one or two solutions available, you can't argue socialism. - SDF - 2/5/2007 4:13:10 AM
        
        You could put it in a more agreeable context. - SDF - 2/5/2007 1:30:38 AM
        
        re: You could put it in a more agreeable context. - EnergyExpert - 2/5/2007 2:01:48 AM
        
        One more layer of beaurocracy isn't going to make us socialist. - SDF - 2/5/2007 4:01:39 AM
        
        rYou could have any car you want, as long as it uses ethanol and has only a single seat... - EnergyExpert - 2/5/2007 4:56:05 AM
        
        God, it's like teaching algebra to someone with grade 4 math skills - SDF - 2/5/2007 5:20:54 AM
        
        Yes, you know NOTHING about how the auto industry worlks. (NT) (n/t) - EnergyExpert - 2/5/2007 7:41:41 AM
- Hydrogen problems are real - Sawyer - 1/24/2007 3:40:18 PM
  - re: Hydrogen problems are real - EnergyExpert - 1/25/2007 6:10:54 AM
    - re:They key about hydrogen is that is possible to produce where its needed - SteveS - 1/25/2007 6:37:04 PM
      - re: re:They key about hydrogen is that is possible to produce where its needed - EnergyExpert - 1/25/2007 11:16:27 PM
        
        Producing hydrogen locally - nick hoffman - 1/26/2007 7:38:45 AM
        
        re: Producing hydrogen locally - EnergyExpert - 1/26/2007 6:35:48 PM
        
        re: Producing hydrogen locally - Yeti - 1/30/2007 8:18:01 PM
        
        re: Producing hydrogen locally - EnergyExpert - 1/30/2007 10:15:33 PM
        
        My My. It just doesn't get any better - Yeti - 1/30/2007 11:15:28 PM
        
        re: My My. It just doesn't get any better - EnergyExpert - 1/31/2007 5:23:22 PM
        
        re: My My. It just doesn't get any better - Yeti - 1/31/2007 5:49:09 PM
        
        re: My My. It just doesn't get any better - EnergyExpert - 1/31/2007 6:41:58 PM
- re: Robert Zubrin blasts the "Hydrogen Economy" - Energy_Expert - 1/23/2007 11:06:37 PM
  - 2 Corrections - M.A.E. - 1/25/2007 11:13:55 PM
    - re: 2 Corrections - EnergyExpert - 1/26/2007 6:37:47 PM
  - You should get your facts straight before you write such an emphatic comment - Fact Checking Yeti - 1/24/2007 10:28:36 PM
    - re: You should get your facts straight before you write such an emphatic comment - EnergyExpert - 1/25/2007 5:58:29 AM
      - re: you should read TFA before you post it as support for what you have said. - Bemused Yeti - 1/29/2007 8:47:36 PM
        
        re: you should read TFA before you post it as support for what you have said. - EnergyExpert - 1/30/2007 8:49:08 AM
        
        Again, read TFA before you use it to bolster your bluster - Laughing Yeti - 1/30/2007 5:06:03 PM
        
        re: Again, read TFA before you use it to bolster your bluster - EnergyExpert - 1/30/2007 10:18:34 PM
        
        re: Again, read TFA before you use it to bolster your bluster - Yeti - 1/30/2007 11:30:08 PM
        
        Further on Newcomb and the flying machines. - Robert Clark - 1/31/2007 3:35:44 AM
        
        re: Further on Newcomb and the flying machines. - EnergyExpert - 1/31/2007 5:32:09 PM
        
        The link gives a free full-text version from the Gutenberg Project. (n/t) - Robert Clark - 1/31/2007 6:02:33 PM
        
        re: The link gives a free full-text version from the Gutenberg Project. - EnergyExpert - 1/31/2007 6:48:42 PM
        
        re: 2 things - Yeti - 1/31/2007 4:30:16 AM
        
        re: 2 things - EnergyExpert - 1/31/2007 5:40:40 PM
        
        re: 2 things - Yeti - 1/31/2007 5:55:03 PM
        
        re: 2 things - EnergyExpert - 1/31/2007 6:44:24 PM
        
        It wasn't just Newcomb who was skeptical. - Robert Clark - 1/31/2007 3:09:54 PM
        
        re: It wasn't just Newcomb who was skeptical. - Yeti - 1/31/2007 6:00:58 PM
        
        About Newcomb and the flying machines. - Robert Clark - 1/30/2007 2:36:21 AM
        
        last part of post truncated for some reason - Yeti - 1/29/2007 8:50:35 PM
      - re: You should get your facts straight before you write such an emphatic comment - Chris Vancil - 1/25/2007 9:22:48 AM
        
        You need to learn about standards for research... - EnergyExpert - 1/25/2007 3:45:17 PM
        
        re: I wasn't arguing it was a good primary. Only you were wrong about how it works. (n/t) - Chris Vancil - 1/25/2007 9:23:18 PM
        
        Back tracking are we??? - EnergyExpert - 1/25/2007 11:04:41 PM
        
        re: No. At least I'm not. How about you? - Chris Vancil - 1/26/2007 7:57:24 AM
        
        A rose is a rose - EnergyExpert - 1/26/2007 6:39:10 PM
  - Robert Zubrin is an aerospace engineer like me. - SDF - 1/24/2007 3:22:47 AM
    - 84mpg VW Lupo - RobVG - 1/28/2007 7:51:21 PM
      - Wow, probably seats 4 people too. (n/t) - SDF - 2/3/2007 7:31:39 PM
    - re: Robert Zubrin is an aerospace engineer like me. - EnergyExpert - 1/25/2007 6:02:41 AM
      - 3-wheels - nick hoffman - 1/26/2007 8:07:31 AM
        
        re: 3-wheels - EnergyExpert - 1/26/2007 6:43:00 PM
        
        Looks aren't the problem. Carmakers don't have the guts to market them. - SDF - 1/27/2007 11:27:11 PM
        
        re: Looks aren't the problem. Carmakers don't have the guts to market them. - EnergyExpert - 1/28/2007 9:05:17 PM
        
        If it takes billions to take a car to market, why do I see small startups making roadworthy cars? (n/t) - SDF - 1/29/2007 4:00:47 AM
        
        Custome cars versus mass production - EnergyExpert - 1/29/2007 4:52:13 PM
        
        I dunno man. - SDF - 1/31/2007 2:00:02 AM
        
        re: I dunno man. - EnergyExpert - 1/31/2007 6:00:14 PM
        
        LOL. So the obvious question is.... - SDF - 2/1/2007 12:10:57 AM
        
        So they make a prototype. They've all made prototypes. - SDF - 1/27/2007 11:30:49 PM
      - re: Robert Zubrin is an aerospace engineer like me. - SDF - 1/26/2007 3:03:00 AM
        
        re: Robert Zubrin is an aerospace engineer like me. - EnergyExpert - 1/26/2007 6:41:51 PM
        
        Hence my prediction. - SDF - 1/27/2007 5:44:55 AM
        
        Radical Environmentalists have… - EnergyExpert - 1/27/2007 4:27:12 PM
        
        True. - SDF - 1/27/2007 10:53:49 PM
        
        re: True. - EnergyExpert - 1/28/2007 9:20:30 PM
        
        Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. - SDF - 1/29/2007 4:10:20 AM
        
        re: Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. - EnergyExpert - 1/29/2007 5:02:46 PM
        
        Home? Mass vs local... - nick hoffman - 1/30/2007 3:25:08 PM
        
        re: Home? Mass vs local... - EnergyExpert - 1/31/2007 6:06:40 PM
        
        Yes. And I'm not certain hydrogen can be stored safely at 10,000 psi - SDF - 1/31/2007 2:21:19 AM
        
        re: Yes. And I'm not certain hydrogen can be stored safely at 10,000 psi - Yeti - 2/1/2007 12:17:51 AM
        
        re: Yes. And I'm not certain hydrogen can be stored safely at 10,000 psi - EnergyExpert - 2/1/2007 5:45:18 AM
        
        re: Yes. And I'm not certain hydrogen can be stored safely at 10,000 psi - Net Crank Munching Yeti - 2/1/2007 6:52:35 AM
        
        Aww hell, you just had to go and piss off the Yeti.... - Arrell - 2/1/2007 11:21:30 AM
        
        re: And in 4 weeks! - EnergyExpert - 1/31/2007 6:38:19 PM
        
        Wrong! - EnergyExpert - 1/31/2007 6:10:23 PM
        
        Compressing hydrogen to 10,000 psi uses up 15% of the energy being stored. - SDF - 2/1/2007 12:17:15 AM
        
        re: Compressing hydrogen to 10,000 psi uses up 15% of the energy being stored. - EnergyExpert - 2/1/2007 6:00:20 AM
        
        re: Compressing hydrogen to 10,000 psi uses up 15% of the energy being stored. - Yeti - 2/1/2007 7:07:53 AM
        
        re: Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. - gbaikie - 1/29/2007 6:05:43 AM
        
        And the hydrogen cars are also just prototypes. - SDF - 1/29/2007 4:13:24 AM
        
        Its about freedom - EnergyExpert - 1/29/2007 5:19:34 PM
        
        THAT is nothing more than a sales pitch - SDF - 2/1/2007 1:51:29 AM
        
        re: THAT is nothing more than a sales pitch - EnergyExpert - 2/1/2007 6:03:25 AM
        
        The CLEVER car research at the U. of Bath was funded by BMW - SDF - 2/1/2007 10:03:16 PM
  - Perhaps a reference link to your supporting material would be instructive here. (n/t) - lEThargy expert - 1/23/2007 11:55:30 PM
    - re: Perhaps a reference link to your supporting material would be instructive here. - EnergyExpert - 1/25/2007 5:50:22 AM
      - Ah, ok. - et - 1/25/2007 6:25:43 AM
        
        re: Ah, ok. - EnergyExpert - 1/25/2007 4:11:43 PM
- I think the Hydrogen economy will be great.... - et - 1/23/2007 6:58:26 PM
  - re: I think the Hydrogen economy will be great.... - Ken Murphy - 1/24/2007 2:41:29 AM
    - Sun juice for my Hummer? - et - 1/24/2007 5:12:21 AM
  - re: I think the Hydrogen economy will be great.... - father earth - 1/23/2007 9:39:16 PM
- re: Robert Zubrin blasts the "Hydrogen Economy" - father earth - 1/23/2007 6:20:24 PM
  - I think it depends on the application. - Scott Evil - 1/23/2007 11:33:12 PM
  - Well, at least he's optimistic about ethanol - Daniel - 1/23/2007 6:47:26 PM

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