We shall see, Chris. We shall see.

Flame » in reply to re: You must have a very different meaning to free society than most people on Earth. Iraq will soon be either a smaller Iran or a messy civil war. No Free Society made or planned there.

We shall see, Chris. We shall see.

REB — 1/31/2006 10:50:41 PM (archived)

I tend to be an optimist and believe most people want the same things we all do. Iraq will become a free democracy. I believe this.

But then, as so many have pointed out here (Tony and Mary Ann didnâ€™t- and I thank both of you for it), I am probably brainwashed.

The whole thread (160 posts)

I have become convinced that Bowser doesn't read posts here - R.L. - 1/29/2006 6:54:34 AM
- Oh, for God's Sake!!! - Bowser - 1/29/2006 11:23:18 PM
- not hoped.. - FrankC - 1/29/2006 7:06:42 PM
- re:Sorry, but.... - Raoul - 1/29/2006 11:03:28 AM
  - re: re:Sorry, but.... - REB - 1/30/2006 7:09:02 PM
    - I've said it before... - Scott Evil - 1/30/2006 11:16:03 PM
      - re: The space program (n/t) - Raoul - 2/1/2006 9:53:20 PM
        
        re: Sorry Raoul. - Scott Evil - 2/3/2006 2:40:30 AM
      - Yo Evil! - Lindy - 1/30/2006 11:57:31 PM
    - "He hates anything that America does.........." - Lindy - 1/30/2006 7:58:12 PM
      - Has he anything good to say about America? - REB - 1/30/2006 8:10:38 PM
        
        re: Where exactly do you imagine this is happening? (n/t) - Chris Vancil - 1/31/2006 9:13:55 AM
        
        It has actually happened in Iraq. (n/t) - REB - 1/31/2006 3:02:37 PM
        
        re: You must have a very different meaning to free society than most people on Earth. Iraq will soon be either a smaller Iran or a messy civil war. No Free Society made or planned there. (n/t) - Chris Vancil - 1/31/2006 10:42:07 PM
        
        We shall see, Chris. We shall see. - REB - 1/31/2006 10:50:41 PM
        
        Yes, we will see and being an Optimist has nothing to do with the facts at play here! - Chris Vancil - 2/1/2006 10:47:24 AM
        
        Clan, tribes, religion - Lindy - 2/1/2006 5:48:11 PM
        
        How can Iraq be a "free society"? - Lindy - 2/1/2006 12:21:15 AM
        
        Yes. - Mary Anne - 1/31/2006 12:01:15 AM
        
        The big question is... - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/31/2006 12:33:43 AM
        
        The mote in your eye - Robert - 1/31/2006 4:54:03 PM
        
        Rhetoric versus Reality - SDAI-Tech1 - 2/1/2006 1:44:16 AM
        
        Rhetoric - Robert - 2/1/2006 5:54:45 AM
        
        War & Peace - SDAI-Tech1 - 2/1/2006 10:17:50 AM
        
        They should be grateful when we invade them! (n/t) - alcaray - 2/1/2006 9:23:46 PM
        
        Many are. I remember the Iraqi kissing the GI...but it's easy to... - SDAI-Tech1 - 2/2/2006 3:05:52 AM
        
        re: War & Peace - Lindy - 2/1/2006 5:55:56 PM
        
        Warren Piece - Robert - 2/1/2006 5:24:30 PM
        
        Ideals can only be demonstrated. - Mary Anne - 1/31/2006 1:18:25 PM
        
        Get off your soapbox Tech 1 - Lindy - 1/31/2006 12:47:12 AM
        
        If the US is now so awful..why live here? - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/31/2006 6:04:39 AM
        
        re: If the US is now so awful..why live here? - Lindy - 1/31/2006 4:48:16 PM
        
        "The US is beautiful.........from sea to shining sea." - Hallelujah! ;-) (n/t) - SDAI-Tech1 - 2/2/2006 3:21:49 AM
        
        Are you having another ephinany SDAI-Tech? - Lindy - 2/2/2006 4:52:07 AM
        
        LOL! "America: Love It or Leave It"? Only one thing to say to that... - Mary Anne - 1/31/2006 1:40:39 PM
        
        Asking someone why they remain is not the same as asking them to leave. ;-) (n/t) - SDAI-Tech1 - 2/2/2006 3:20:23 AM
        
        Not grammatically, no. - Mary Anne - 2/2/2006 3:20:19 PM
        
        Gawd, are you brainwashed or what?? - Lindy - 1/31/2006 12:00:41 AM
        
        Maybe, but then, it may be you that is brainwashed. - REB - 1/31/2006 1:11:19 PM
        
        re: That is exactly what colonial countries said - Raoul - 2/2/2006 9:24:18 AM
        
        "Spreading Freedom?" - Lindy - 1/31/2006 4:40:59 PM
        
        WMD - REB - 1/31/2006 5:01:10 PM
        
        Yes - REB - 1/31/2006 4:51:33 PM
        
        Save your fingers (n/t) - Sam F. - 2/1/2006 4:02:42 AM
        
        re: Maybe, but then, it may be you that is brainwashed. - REB - 1/31/2006 1:56:55 PM
  - Forgive them, Raoul, they know not what they do. - Bowser - 1/29/2006 10:54:54 PM
  - The Germans were not chased out of Belgium by diplomacy. (n/t) - Tom Brosz - 1/29/2006 10:27:15 PM
    - re: The Germans had been the invaders (n/t) - Raoul - 1/30/2006 6:42:03 AM
      - Just as Iraq (Saddam) were the invaders of Kuwait. (nt) (n/t) - REB - 1/30/2006 7:33:19 PM
        
        re: Exactly and Bush father did the right thing, approved by the international community - Raoul - 1/30/2006 8:09:19 PM
        
        So you are on record saying you supported the 1st Gulf War? - Scott Evil - 1/30/2006 11:18:36 PM
        
        I think Bush Sr. screwed up. He should have taken Saddam out. - REB - 1/30/2006 8:14:03 PM
        
        re: I think Bush Sr. screwed up. He should have taken Saddam out. - Lindy - 1/31/2006 12:48:55 AM
        
        You're not the only one who felt that way. - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/30/2006 10:34:18 PM
        
        9/11 was the work of Saudis. SAUDIS. - Mary Anne - 1/31/2006 2:25:10 PM
    - I believe Raoul's point is that the Germans were no more invited into Belgium than we were invited into Iraq. - Mary Anne - 1/30/2006 1:34:27 AM
      - Okay, if we're going in that direction... - Tom Brosz - 1/30/2006 5:44:17 PM
        
        The USSR had already entered Germany from the other direction. - Mary Anne - 1/30/2006 6:35:37 PM
        
        That doesn't change the issue at all. - Tom Brosz - 1/30/2006 7:35:44 PM
        
        If you wish to fight on the battlefield of history, you must deal with the facts as they are. - Mary Anne - 1/31/2006 2:07:23 PM
        
        Playing (only slight) DA - Tony - 1/30/2006 9:09:40 PM
        
        Hitler was... - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/30/2006 9:27:31 PM
        
        Can't tell if that post was wistful or not....... - Tony - 1/31/2006 6:03:34 PM
        
        Wistful of what? - SDAI-Tech1 - 2/1/2006 10:46:37 PM
        
        re: Playing (only slight) DA - REB - 1/30/2006 9:27:27 PM
        
        "Are you sure Hitler was a threat to the rest of the world."(?) - Robert - 1/31/2006 6:17:08 PM
        
        re: Rockets - Raoul - 1/30/2006 9:34:57 PM
        
        re: Rockets - REB - 1/30/2006 9:42:25 PM
        
        Nuking the US - absurd - azstrummer - 1/30/2006 11:01:34 PM
        
        09-10-01, Terrorist bringing down the WTC buildings. Absurd! (n/t) - REB - 1/31/2006 1:09:03 PM
        
        It was predicted and easy to see coming - azstrummer - 1/31/2006 9:26:36 PM
        
        re: It was predicted and easy to see coming - REB - 1/31/2006 9:35:18 PM
        
        Only absurd if your name is Condaleeza....... (n/t) - Tony - 1/31/2006 5:57:24 PM
        
        Not absurd - predicted. - Laurie Street - 1/31/2006 5:57:18 PM
        
        Pre-9/11. had you told some one two Jets were going to take down the WTC buildings, they would not have believed you. - REB - 1/31/2006 6:06:21 PM
        
        re: In 1994 - Raoul - 1/31/2006 7:28:57 PM
        
        Oh for Pete's sake. - Tony - 1/31/2006 6:14:24 PM
        
        re: Oh for Pete's sake. - REB - 1/31/2006 6:39:25 PM
        
        Which thread are you reading? - Tony - 1/31/2006 8:42:19 PM
        
        re: Which thread are you reading? - REB - 1/31/2006 9:02:13 PM
        
        re: Which thread are you reading? - azstrummer - 1/31/2006 9:57:16 PM
        
        re: Which thread are you reading? - REB - 1/31/2006 10:15:30 PM
        
        re: Which thread are you reading? - azstrummer - 2/1/2006 4:57:05 PM
        
        re: But Saddam was not left alone after 1991! (n/t) - Raoul - 1/30/2006 10:16:06 PM
        
        Those watching him were corrupt. - REB - 1/30/2006 10:40:03 PM
        
        re: Those watching him were soldiers, not politicians - Raoul - 1/31/2006 5:27:41 PM
        
        And they did a lousy job - REB - 1/31/2006 5:39:17 PM
        
        Sure by 1951...maybe. - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/30/2006 9:39:08 PM
        
        Good to see you Mary Anne - McFly - 1/30/2006 7:22:08 PM
        
        re: The USSR had already entered Germany from the other direction. - REB - 1/30/2006 7:21:10 PM
        
        re: re:Because the UN is about international law and respect of sovereignty of states (n/t) - Raoul - 1/30/2006 8:13:28 PM
        
        Maybe sovereignty should belong to the people, not any murderous dictator who seizes power? (n/t) - Sam F. - 1/31/2006 5:25:22 AM
        
        Speaking of Dubya... - Robert - 2/1/2006 10:29:34 PM
        
        Sovereignty is sovereignty. You need to change the UN charter if you want them to prohibit right wing autocracies.us dictator who seizes power? (n/t) - alcaray - 1/31/2006 4:10:26 PM
        
        Yep - Sam F. - 2/1/2006 3:57:57 AM
        
        Pretty dangerous tendency to mob rule these days. - alcaray - 2/1/2006 4:48:57 PM
        
        re: Sovereignty is sovereignty. You need to change the UN charter if you want them to prohibit right wing autocracies.us dictator who seizes power? - REB - 1/31/2006 4:38:11 PM
        
        And about funneling money to Saddam for "Oil for Food". LOL! (n/t) - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/30/2006 9:42:55 PM
        
        I still do not see the difference between what Hitler did to France and what Saddam did to Kuwait - REB - 1/30/2006 8:16:31 PM
        
        The difference is the chance of success - azstrummer - 1/30/2006 11:18:23 PM
        
        Getting rid of Hitler was more costly to America than getting rid of Saddam will ever be. - REB - 1/31/2006 1:17:35 PM
        
        re:Geopolitics - Raoul - 1/30/2006 8:37:21 PM
      - Moral equivalence is wonderful isn't it? - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/30/2006 5:46:35 AM
        
        You wouldn't know a "cock-eyed" view if it bit you - Lindy - 1/30/2006 5:19:43 PM
        
        is "moral equivalence" your new default sloganeering? - Publius - 1/30/2006 2:43:11 PM
        
        Nowhere did I say that Hitler's Germany = Bush's, um, Washington. - Mary Anne - 1/30/2006 2:22:33 PM
    - We asked VERY nicely... (n/t) - R.L. - 1/30/2006 1:01:06 AM
  - Black and White - Buck Galaxy - 1/29/2006 9:43:37 PM
    - Both - And v. Black and White, Either - Or", and "but". - Bowser - 1/31/2006 4:58:58 AM
      - re: Both - And v. Black and White, Either - Or", and "but". - Buck Galaxy - 2/1/2006 4:33:33 AM
        
        As I explained - I am an American. And here's the crux. - Bowser - 2/1/2006 6:38:22 AM
        
        re: As I explained - I am an American. And here's the crux. - Buck Galaxy - 2/1/2006 7:33:24 AM
        
        Blinded by the light. - Bowser - 2/1/2006 3:45:12 PM
        
        Let me back up - Buck Galaxy - 2/1/2006 4:36:58 PM
    - re: Black and White - REB - 1/30/2006 7:18:13 PM
    - A partial answer to CE - Bowser - 1/29/2006 9:53:37 PM
      - War gave you your freedom - REB - 1/30/2006 7:25:19 PM
        
        Courage gave us freedom. - Mary Anne - 1/31/2006 1:55:36 PM
        
        re: Courage gave us freedom. - REB - 1/31/2006 2:11:07 PM
        
        America, with the germ of our democratic institutions, was formed by its colonial experience. - Mary Anne - 1/31/2006 2:34:02 PM
        
        But it still took a War to get Independence from the British - REB - 1/31/2006 4:29:06 PM
        
        re: But it still took a War to get Independence from the British - Laurie Street - 1/31/2006 6:02:01 PM
        
        I doubt it would have happened had America not won her independence from Brittan. - REB - 1/31/2006 6:13:48 PM
        
        How did India and Australia and others get there? - Laurie Street - 1/31/2006 8:10:58 PM
        
        re: How did India and Australia and others get there? - REB - 1/31/2006 9:07:32 PM
        
        Yes, Robert, there was a Revolution... - Mary Anne - 1/31/2006 5:53:55 PM
        
        re: Yes, Robert, there was a Revolution... - REB - 1/31/2006 6:41:51 PM
      - Not bad - Buck Galaxy - 1/30/2006 5:34:30 PM
        
        um, Buck... - Mary Anne - 1/30/2006 5:47:10 PM
        
        re: um, Mary Anne - Buck Galaxy - 1/31/2006 5:14:12 AM
        
        Intent vs. volume - Mary Anne - 1/31/2006 1:32:29 PM
        
        re: Intent vs. volume - Buck Galaxy - 2/1/2006 1:20:45 AM
        
        re: um, Mary Anne... - Tom Brosz - 1/30/2006 7:31:30 PM
        
        um, Tom.....Two can play that game - Tony - 1/30/2006 9:16:18 PM
        
        Are you saying everyone has a but? Shocking! (n/t) - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/30/2006 9:33:24 PM
        
        Hey, I'm not going to knock it too much - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/30/2006 9:13:01 PM
        
        Go get some fresh air, Tech 1 - Lindy - 1/31/2006 12:05:06 AM
      - Well said, sir. (n/t) - Laurie Street - 1/30/2006 4:56:06 PM
      - Excellent answer - Robert - 1/30/2006 5:16:48 AM
      - This deserves to be read again. - Mary Anne - 1/30/2006 1:31:36 AM
        
        pretty articulate for someone described as "You are an incoherent, unthinking partisan hack..". - Publius - 1/30/2006 2:55:30 PM
        
        The Power of Belief - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/30/2006 4:36:32 AM
        
        The Power of Hyperbole - Mary Anne - 1/30/2006 2:26:37 PM
        
        Criticism & dissatisfaction versus escape mechanisms - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/30/2006 9:00:04 PM
        
        "Each individual carries their own unique cross to Calgary" - Lindy - 1/31/2006 12:08:06 AM
        
        No one carries a cross to Calgary. They aren't any use at the rodeo. - Mary Anne - 1/31/2006 12:07:19 AM
        
        Making Most of Mixed Metaphors - SDAI-Tech1 - 1/31/2006 12:19:31 AM
      - Thank you Bowser...........clap, clap, clap - Lindy - 1/30/2006 1:20:14 AM
  - What a load of crap... - R.L. - 1/29/2006 9:26:34 PM
    - re: Playing the devil's advocate - Raoul - 1/30/2006 5:42:09 PM
    - clearly you are wrong..... - Publius - 1/30/2006 3:19:36 PM
      - "Inclusive Left." Now THAT'S funny. - Tom Brosz - 1/30/2006 5:54:55 PM
    - do you leave your brians on the mountain top every day? - Lindy - 1/30/2006 1:21:31 AM
      - No, you airhead - R.L. - 1/30/2006 1:41:23 AM
        
        Sorry, meant BRAINS, (not brians) - Lindy - 1/30/2006 3:07:50 AM
        
        re: Anf he had a strange sense of humor! the logic of a machine (n/t) - Raoul - 1/30/2006 8:39:55 PM
        
        Brian the Brain was a Space 1999 episode - REB - 1/30/2006 7:55:52 PM
        
        Doesn't have any brians, Lindy. - Bowser - 1/30/2006 5:04:32 AM
        
        You are insane - R.L. - 1/30/2006 5:23:26 AM
  - Thanks Raoul for sharing that story - Lindy - 1/29/2006 6:33:52 PM

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