Flame — HabitableZone

Flame » in reply to Black and White

A partial answer to CE
Bowser — (archived)

OK. You had a fair question on CE, I suppose. First, barbarity and brutality perpetrated by anyone, anytime, is heinous and to be condemned. Anyone. Anytime, anywhere.

War is barbarity and brutality. Anyone who has been in war to the point of being validly afraid for one’s own safety knows that.

War can be forced upon a people, as it was America in 1941. It was not forced upon the Japanese. It was legitimate for the US to fight back, which it did every way it could including atomic weapons. Gratuitous violence, killing the helpless, even under those circumstances was terrorism. Both sides were guilty of that and both sides can be ashamed of that.

War was forced upon the Iraqi people in 2003. War was not forced upon the American people. It is legitimate for the Iraqis to fight back. Gratuitous violence, killing the helpless, even under those circumstances, such as beheading a hostage, is terrorism. The perpetrators should be tried as criminals. Dropping 500 pound bombs on a city is terrorism, and the people who order that done should be tried for crimes against humanity.

America is not a victim, helpless under the lash of foreigners who “hate democracy” and “freedom”. America is a perpetrator, and has been for a long time. For instance, America fomented the revolution in Iran, installed the Shah, created and trained the SAVAK, one of the most brutal secret police ever created. America instigated and supported the Iraqi – Iran war, to the point of supplying Saddam, a brutal and barbaric dictator, with WMDs.

People who support barbarity and brutality are vile. Any people. The best that can be said for the bastards is that they are ignorant. People who support an aggressive war under the banner of patriotism and have both avoided ANY service to their country and who bitch about their taxes are just about beneath contempt. Any politeness or courtesy shown them is above and beyond the call of duty, more than they deserve, and strictly optional.

I criticize my country because it is my country. I expect great things from it. I do not expect it to have its behavior governed by the worst in the world any more than I allowed my children to use the “everybody’s doing it” excuse. Were I Israeli or Iraqi or Afghan I would hope I would be protesting the Israeli, Iraqi or Afghan brutalities. I would be much more critical of dishonesty in my own family than I would in yours, take far stronger action, be much more disappointed.

Some people think their own bullshit doesn’t stink. Aggression is aggression. German, Japanese or American. Secret prisons are secret prisons, secret arrests are secret arrests. Comparisons are valid. Killing 30,000 innocent people does not avenge the killing of 3,000 innocent people. It is nothing except barbaric and brutal. Killing 30,000 innocent people does not make up for one dictator. Who is still alive and well. To claim that is so is beneath contempt.

As for the people who expect someone like me to make nice to the people who support the creation and causation of unnecessary suffering - - - well, I can, I suppose, but don’t expect it. And to expect America to be great is patriotic.

Arf

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