Flame — HabitableZone

Flame » in reply to re: Criticism of Bush's war policy = treason

I see where you're coming from.
Mary Anne — (archived)

I still don't agree, but I see it.

To remind you: my family has lawyers in it. This has always colored my thinking and speaking on matters that pertain to the law.

I don't think that cries of treason should be stamped out as hate crimes. I think they should be substantiated or not made. Acts of treason are gravely serious things; so are false accusations. Blanket false accusations act as a more severe curtailment of free speech by intimidation than insistance that any accusation be concrete and specific ever could. We can see this in the long history of public, civic and political speech.

The whole issue of defending Robert -- who certainly can handle his own defense -- isn't a matter of lock-step, or blind following, but of shared opinion. Your point about more precise identification of moderator comments was a good one, especially re: newbies, but Gary is no newbie. He could have asked if he were confused. I guess he didn't feel like it.

Your concept of recruitment is a lot different from mine. To me, recruitment is to advertise where to join; to facilitate the process of joining for someone who expresses interest through informative literature, media presentations, and locations, be they IRL or virtual; to talk up the virtues and opportunities available to those who might be candidates to join but haven't thought about it; and to provide personal services to those who are in the process of joining.

For instance, I don't think that The Longest Day is a recruitment tool for the US Army, though it does depict attractive people overcoming dire conditions in support of an heroic cause somewhat fictionally set in a known historic period. I do think that films produced by the US Army with content oversight are recruitment tools, however, even if they are directed by commercial Hollywood directors.

So to me, unless one is actively inviting someone to join an organization, even if doing so secretly, no recruitment is going on. Therefore, unless someone here is doing that, your recruitment of terrorists idea has no legs.

Also, if repeating lies, or making them up, is treason, there might be a lot of people in jail who are currently running the country. Treason and lying are not the same, even if the lies undermine the image of the US. Treasonous lies are ones that are deliberately spread at the direction of the enemy, orchestrated by the enemy, content supervised by the enemy, with the intent to confuse the people in our armed forces. There can be no confusion on the part of the speaker that the enemy is the one directing the content and dispersion of the lies. That is the true meaning of "aid and comfort" as it applies to speech, not just speech that makes the enemy happy.

To skip down to your conversation with Robert about grudges, I bear you none, though you do tick me off mightily sometimes. But you know, political families are bred to argue.

I have a friend named Tom, whom I have known, along with his wife, since our daughters (now both 24) were in nursery school together. He is a staunch Republican, though less staunch lately I have noticed. Every year we attend the same picnic on Labor Day, and every year after a couple of beers we argue politics out on the lawn. We can get quite heated, and nobody ever wins because neither of us yields. It has become a tradition and a spectator sport. His wife roots for me openly. But we're friends.

What I don't forget, and seldom forgive, is being played by someone. The whole passive-aggressive "c'mere c'mere c'mere go away go away go away" thing will earn someone the gimlet eye for life. You're too up-front to do either of those things.

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